Enhancement Shaman PTR Changes


(Exposed) #181
11/09/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Breezybro
These changes solve absolutely nothing. When are you going ti increase our malestrom pool back up to what it was in legion? Now that is a change that would be impactful....

I actually find it disgusting how dedicated the enhance/shaman community are and how the theory crafters have given so much good feedback only to have blizzard completely ignore it.


Maybe they can get some of those best devs they moved to mobile back on PC.

(Thalerion) #182
Lol I honestly feel bad for all you enhancement shamans out there. I barely even play the class and I was looking forward to the PROMISED rework when Ion spoke of it back during BfA launch.

I felt bad that you guys were forgotten during the launch rework.

I feel even worse that this slap in the face number's tuning job is all your'e getting.

Ion makes things feel bad.

(Fraustwulf) #183
Okay so obviously, I'm not the first to post. But I just need to know, does anyone who works on this class actually play this class? I'm not being sarcastic, but it truly seems that they don't. We really don't understand this. The issue is mechanical. The issue is that maelstrom is irrelevant. The issue is that FW has to be taken because Totes on global makes it too clunky. The issue is that Stormstrike means nothing anymore, SS proc 6 or 7 times in a row while mael is pegged out is not fun.

(Thüne) #184
I warned you all.

The promise of 8.1 changes was a smoke screen to just keep you paying.

(Fruk) #185
11/11/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Fraustwulf
Okay so obviously, I'm not the first to post. But I just need to know, does anyone who works on this class actually play this class? I'm not being sarcastic, but it truly seems that they don't. We really don't understand this. The issue is mechanical. The issue is that maelstrom is irrelevant. The issue is that FW has to be taken because Totes on global makes it too clunky. The issue is that Stormstrike means nothing anymore, SS proc 6 or 7 times in a row while mael is pegged out is not fun.


Ion's main is a shaman, but as far as I know he plays mostly resto.

(Victor) #186
This is quite telling and not good at all for the future of the expansion. They say Enhance is due for a rework in 8.1 and instead it's getting number/talent tuning 8 months late? Why would ever take that long to simply tune numbers? This is a paltry amount of work setting a Enhancement bot vs a training dummy with different talent selections. This amount of data gathering could be handled by an intern within a week with minimal effort. This is inexcusable.

You need zero player collected data (other than the PvP talent change) to come up with the data for this sort of talent tuning. None of these talent changes have anything to due with any reason these couldn't have been done 8 months ago.

(Blitzwerk) #187
Blues, are you guys just going to ignore the community feedback in this thread?

(Ehelolx) #188
11/11/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Fraustwulf
Okay so obviously, I'm not the first to post. But I just need to know, does anyone who works on this class actually play this class?


I don't think there's anyone specific working on this class tbh. They probably just chucked some random intern in to do something during beta and hoped it'd work. Even then I'd still expect more lol.

(Belerian) #189
That's what took you several months? These are looking like hotfixes, not like a rework.

(Wreckstørm) #190
I've been very disappointed with you in recent weeks blizzard. This one feels like a slap in the face. These are the changes we've been waiting for? And a nerf to lightning shield? What are you people smoking over there?

(Glitzytrout) #191
Wow. I am nowhere near as conversant with enhance but this feels very much like the spriest changes. Essentially #s tuning that could have been done months ago pushing some damage around, nerfs / buffs that mostly cancel out and nothing done to address the core mechanics of how the spec feels and plays.

I feel for you guys. I feel for my fellow spriests. It's just depressing how much we all care about the experiences we want to have with our classes and specs and it doesn't feel like Blizzard is even looking at what we tell them. :(

(Exposed) #192
11/09/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Breezybro
These changes solve absolutely nothing. When are you going ti increase our malestrom pool back up to what it was in legion? Now that is a change that would be impactful....

I actually find it disgusting how dedicated the enhance/shaman community are and how the theory crafters have given so much good feedback only to have blizzard completely ignore it.


Don't you have a phone? They are all to busy working on mobile games to be bothered with class design on PC.

(Dlux) #193
Why did it take until 8.1 to implement mere tuning changes? It was suggested by Blizzard that Shaman specs weren't finished upon BfA release and would get more than just number tuning (which could have been done months ago in a hotfix) when 8.1 hits...

All I wanted was for Resto and Enhance Shams to be actually competitive in Mythic+ (and for me to a lesser extent hopefully raid progression as well). None of the changes thus far are indicative of this happening.

Everyone knows that Resto Sham is the worst healer for M+ by a truly radical margin. It's not even close. I think everyone is generally fine with and accepting of some specs being better than others but the difference between the best and worst shouldn't be outrageously monumental to the point of actual absurdity (as is the case now). Even for the literal best players in the entire world, throughout all regions, Resto Sham is by far the worst. Also lame for raid progression. Look at the logs, it's pretty clear what the situation is.

Enhance in M+ isn't great either. There's no reason to take an Enh Sham on any kind of high-key run compared with other melee classes. Just look at the logs for Enh representation in M+... it's pitiful to the point of ridiculousness.

I wanted to go hard in M+ in BfA as a Shaman main (either Enh or Resto) and at least be decent (even if not top-tier) for raid progression. As everyone already knows, Shaman for M+ in general is crap-tier. Was gonna reactivate in 8.1, definitely not going happen now.

Was the plan for BfA Shaman to make them initially good in PvP but horrendous for PvE regardless of spec? Then nerf Enh in PvP to bring them down so they don't even have that (i.e. Static Cling was REMOVED completely, mana regen became a joke - hurr durr casted heals now I can't purge or use my totems, etc)? Was there graphs and charts with a timeline for how to make Shaman the one true ultimate meme class?

I understand that class balance and tuning is a fairly complex thing. However, I also understand that a company worth billions of dollars and access to tremendous amounts of resources, should be able to handle it effectively in a more timely fashion (but seriously, correct me if I'm wrong here).

Is Shaman particularly bad in PvE because they are decent in PvP? Is this an actual decided upon philosophy? Genuine question.

Regardless of anything else, the one question I want answered the most is why did it take months for what essentially amounts to hot-fixes with number tuning (especially considering the money and resources of Blizzard)?

(Bannex) #194
This team clearly doesn't play bfa otherwise they'd find the gcd, AA and some of the specs horribly unplayable.

The balancing effort is evident that the current dev team is focused on WoWs next big step and not current fun or fun at all.

#195
Enhance utility is what makes it good. Our damage is on par with rogues that set up damage and have lots of cc.

Enhance’s comparative strength, since it doesn’t have a lot of cc, comes from utility such as grounding, tremor, off heals and purge.

Enhance damage is now being reworked and a significant amount of its damage came from static cling (removed) and forked/ride the lightning that have been nerfed and made it one talent that only allows one or the other talent to proc and will only hit 2 targets instead of 3.

Enhance utility/support in the sense of off healing was directly nerfed by 33% and indirectly by mana regen nerf.

Enhance utility in the sense of purge was nerfed due to now poor mana regen.

Enhance utility was also affected in that its totems still cost mana and if an enhance purges or off heals too much it can’t cast totems like grounding or cap totem for 2-3 seconds which can be game changing in arenas

They have now nerfed lightning shield to no longer build maelstrom on overcharge as well as our windfury talent nerf from 100-80%, which are major talent choices and significantly further nerfs enhance damage output.

in response to all these nerfs they reverted the initial 5% overall damage nerf that went out with the nerf to enhance’s off healing and mana regen

Blizzard had originally promised a rework to enhance in 8.1 before the release of BFAlpha. Instead of a rework they nerf enhance based on the current static cling/ride the lightning/forked lightning talents that were left over from legion.

And instead of a thought out and planned rework enhance has received reactionary nerfs and changes. Nothing blizzard has been done to enhance was done with any forethought or any form of planning; only reactionary measures.

It’s sad, lazy and embarrassing.

(Orno) #196
We didn't need our talents choices rebalanced and structured. I need to be rebalanced for example against a disc priest that doesn't die and the anime-style class you put in that doesn't fit in this game that does 4 times my damage in a 5 minute arena match.

Buffing what isn't popular choice for shamans and nerfing what is, not a rework, just a classic reshuffle from Blizzard.

Do better.

(Orno) #197
  • Nerf Lighting shield because shamans aren't drained enough of their maelstrom, too much mobile dmg.
  • Nerf Forceful Winds and windfury for the 50 thousandth time, buff landslide (again forcing the dependance on the build up to SS dmg)
  • You don't touch the 45 talent bracket despite it being one the biggest holes in our talent tree.
  • Buff Hailstorm about .8 dps, still a no go.
  • No changes to overcharge and one of the least used shaman abilities, lighting bolt
  • Ignore the survivability talents in the 75 bracket, go figure
  • Nerf mobile damage from FoA and buff crashing which anyone with a brain that can handle 5 man dungeons knows to not step in.
  • Brillant, a non starter for 8.1.

    (Madalot) #198
    Since its closer to Monday I'll re-iterate my points from the 1st page for Nimox / Lore / Blue who I daresay will get an unfair amount of blame for this. Don't shoot the messenger people!

    These changes are not good enough.
    That goes for Enhancement and Elemental. Can't comment on others, I don't play them.

    Both of the spec's have fundamental problems. There is no benefit / buff for having this classes over a frost mage / DH / BM Hunter / Arms Warrior, etc. We're still awaiting an explanation of our Niche (which Ion Hazzikostas said each spec should have).

    We also suffer from mechanical problems, With maelstrom cap and RNG on enhancement, along with elemental being not quite strong enough to be a turret, not mobile enough to be anything else (along with Echo of the elements still being a talent despite basically being a mechanical requirement for the spec)

    it does NOT. I repeat, DOES NOT take 8 months of feedback since alpha to implement the fixes that have been implemented. We were told to wait until 8.1. to solve mechanical problems in one of Ion's Q&A's, WHICH HAS NOT BEEN DONE.

    The community is getting tired of this. We don't just want one blue post in a blue moon. We're past that point now. It's time for either an AMA, an open discussion (with back and forth responses), or some other medium in which our feedback will be clearly heard. I've lost faith in posting feedback on the forums and hoping for the best.

    Please tell the dev's to sort it out, and more precisely tell them THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH

    I also expect some sort of response to at least acknowledge we've been heard. Tired of hearing nothing. A simple 'We hear you, passing it along' will suffice. Blizzard keeps talking about improving communication, time to do it.

    (Exposed) #199
    11/11/2018 02:58 PMPosted by Bannex
    This team clearly doesn't play bfa otherwise they'd find the gcd, AA and some of the specs horribly unplayable.

    The balancing effort is evident that the current dev team is focused on WoWs next big step and not current fun or fun at all.


    Well considering they said they are putting many hours into playing mobile games instead of PC I would say you are right.

    (Meridax) #200
    Do you Guys not Have SHAMANS?