End the war on solo gameplay in WoW

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

The iLvl gap between solo content rewards and group content rewards is higher than ever, almost equal to the power gains from 2 patches.

What were the highest ilvl solo rewards in Wrath? BC? Vanilla? And group content in those same expansions?

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

@Brewa-hyjal

Why. Are. You. Ignoring. The. Massive. Cypher. Buffs. In. The. New. Zone?

They. Don’t. Work. In. Torghast.

Torghast. Is. Done. You. Already. Outlevel. It.

(boss rush is very easy)

[Jalanili-moon-guard]

@Brewa-hyjal

Torghast. Is. Done. You. Already. Outlevel. It.

I outlevel legacy raids too, that doesn’t mean that I don’t have any interest in going back for the rewards. Which you’d think that Blizzard would be over the moon about, as I have fun with existing content instead of clamoring for a neverending supply of new and very expensive and development-heavy raids, zones and dungeons.

[Brewa-hyjal]

Are you talking about Legion?

Legion is a casualty of the botched level squish, a bunch of us warned everyone prior to the squish that Blizzard was going to screw it up.

We were told we were wrong and the level squish was going to be wonderful.

(We were right, btw.)

[Vitalia-sisters-of-elune]

@Brewa-hyjal

Torghast. Is. Done. You. Already. Outlevel. It.

Recommended item level is 285. Not saying it is going to be impossible, but it is not going to be an enjoyable experience for players still in the 220-240s range, and geared characters are going to have a much easier time getting Flawless Master.

@Brewa-hyjal

(boss rush is very easy)

They recently buffed Jalier’s Gauntlet on the PTR. The first iteration was probably on the easy side so that people could get through it to properly test all the layers and floors. (Think of how Mage Tower was buffed between PTR and live.)

[Rabititus-shuhalo (Rabititus)]

@Jalanili-moon-guard

Oh yeah

So I checked your profile, you do run LFR and heroic dungeons. Is your experience doing those the reason you don’t want to progress into mythic dungeons? You will find toxic morons there, particularly if you pug keys.

I started moving this character up the ladder after abandoning it in 9.1 last Thursday. My friends ran some mythics with me to get gear, which is never where my RNG shines. We ran two 4 keys, made the timer so there’s something in the vault waiting for me, probably coins but I digress.

You need the right friends to enjoy mythics. We don’t care if we make the timer. It’s about enjoying each other’s company first and foremost. No one nerd rages because we wipe, or die to stupid. We laugh about it.

I’m just curious why your multiplayer stops at LFR.

[Vitalia-sisters-of-elune]

@Brewa-hyjal

What were the highest ilvl solo rewards in Wrath? BC? Vanilla? And group content in those same expansions?

Gear from crafting, PvP, and even some rewards were viable in earlier expansions, and if you didn’t raid at the current highest tier, you didn’t really need the top gear in the game. Additionally, pre-existing content didn’t scale up in required power levels with each new patch.

[Arthaddeus-stormrage]

Mythic+ tanking in BFA was one of the worse experiences of my MMO life. That is why I retired for good after achieving keystone master from tanking pugs.

[Deathfang-stormscale]

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

Gear from crafting, PvP, and even some rewards were viable in earlier expansions

The crafting portion is something I greatly miss about the game. I feel like the only use crafting has now is selling consumables to raiders.

[Fostracize-frostwolf]

@Kyraz-old-blanchy

The time was, indeed, Classic WOW, but the words tell you that Blizzard intended for this to be a home to solo players just as much as players of the highest levels. There was no differentiation in the value of players, or of gameplay, or insinuation that solo play was any less welcome than dungeon and raid play.

The highest rewards in the game have always come from the hardest multiplayer content, since day one. That hasn’t changed. Yet for some reason today it’s considered unwelcoming?

I disagree that solo players are ignored because they aren’t rewarded equally with players doing much more challenging content. I also don’t feel there is a “war on solo play” when developers use storylines or rewards to encourage individuals to join up with others, many people believe those multiplayer experiences are when wow is at it’s best.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

Gear from crafting, PvP, and even some rewards were viable in earlier expansions

The crafting required components that dropped in raids.

PvP was superior to raiding in terms of gearing in Shadowlands.

[Podwe-area-52]

@Eleusia-myzrael

These historically low iLvls for world content and unrated PvP are bad enough, but the exclusion from tier pieces is an insult to millions of average gamers that will have no reason to play the final, and probably longest, patch of an expansion for the game that used to be the undisputed top MMO, even during the middle of a worldwide pandemic.

this is literally how wow has worked since…forever. why do you need tier pieces if you aren’t doing group content? it doesn’t make sense

@Eleusia-myzrael

Yes, we realize that this is a multi-player game, and we may even enjoy doing many things with our friends, but no, we do not want to do raids, Mythic dungeons, or rated PvP together or with you.

then whats wrong with the gear you get? should be just fine for what yall do

@Eleusia-myzrael

Yes, WoW’s population is declining, and it is getting harder to justify the majority of the game’s development expenses going into activities that fewer and fewer players are engaging in (both in terms of absolute and relative numbers). End the war on solo gameplay, so that WoW can go back to being WoW.

I don’t even know what to say to this lol

@Eleusia-myzrael

Admit it. Shadowlands has been a failure because the typical gamer does not play WoW the way you do

shadowlands is failure for reasons OTHER than not giving solo players gear lol

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Brewa-hyjal

Maybe they’ve finally realized that the demands will never cease, so they’ve just given up because that beast simply cannot be kept fed.

No, they’re still trying to feed the elitist gear gatekeeping beast, even if they have to starve all the pups.

Every single system in 9.2 has been hand-tailored to make raiders feel like they own the game again, and the raiders still balk at the sight of solo players wearing purples.

[Slambang-blackwater-raiders (Slambang)]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

… That’s what 249 is next patch. it’s the same as LFR end boss, which is more than enough to do most of normal, even +10 keys.

MOST? Then I guess 249 isn’t enough. Should be “all”. So maybe 260? Why not. I’d just appreciate a high enough iLvl to have fun beating the snot out of 4 mobs at a time without taking all day or dying.

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Podwe-area-52

shadowlands is failure for reasons OTHER than not giving solo players gear lol

Well, yes, but you can bet that those raiders are going to be in the new raid the first week it opens, even if they have been complaining about covenant systems and lore for 2 years straight.

The solo players who know how bad 9.2 is going to be for them will leave like they did in 9.0, if they even give the patch a chance at all.

The true measure of an MMO’s success or failure is how many subs it can maintain. Microsoft surely realizes this. Ion’s team needs to face the realities of solo players in WoW if they want to keep their jobs in 2024 and beyond.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

The idea is that you clear normal Sepulcher, collecting 252/259 items as you go, and the only boss where you might want more is the last boss. Unless we get the exact same tuning curve we got in Castle and Sanctum, where 249 would be enough to get you to Heroic Anduin

[Warzug-mankrik]

@Brewa: what are your thoughts on the claim that “the entire game is ONLY designed for top 1% Mythic raid loggers, the devs bend over backwards to please them while casuals get the crumbs that fall off the table”

Seems like a common saying among casual LFR/World-Quester types. I’m curious to hear what you think about this quote since you are one of the few Mythic raiders on here. Most of the forum is casuals-to-mid range from what I see, not many actual Mythic raiders.

[Brewa-hyjal]

I think it’s absurd.

We had that thread a couple weeks ago about how “9.2 coddles raiders” and I pointed out the factual inaccuracies in the original post. It was just an entire thread of things that were incorrect.

[Jayne-malganis]

@Warzug-mankrik

what are your thoughts on the claim that “the entire game is ONLY designed for top 1% Mythic raid loggers, the devs bend over backwards to please them while casuals get the crumbs that fall off the table”

Pure crackpot conspiracy theory ramblings.

Probably from unskilled people who nobody wants to play with who are desperately attempting to find some external thing to shift the blame towards.

[Vitalia-sisters-of-elune]

@Brewa-hyjal

PvP was superior to raiding in terms of gearing in Shadowlands.

In 9.0, yes, especially if your spec favored Versatility or had a 1-minute DPS CD.

But the nerf to PvP gear in PvE content was not insignificant. It felt like devs were trying to equalize content rewards in 9.1, with the changes to PvP gear and the Korthia upgrades. The Domination Shard system was bad, but at least they made the huge set bonuses work in raids only.

9.2, however, looks terrible unless you are a raider who wants to do Torghast and Zereth Mortis as side content for cosmetics.