End the war on solo gameplay in WoW

[Kuwu-moon-guard]

I dont get this rant at all. I can do all the content, just not at the higher difficulties?

[Yinz-area-52]

Solo players used to be able to get good rewards without needing guilds or finding M+ groups. Either daily/weekly chests, titanforging… patch features like the bfa invasions or grinding in nazjatar. With a little patience you could gear yourself up nicely on your own.

Now to get any kind of high level gear you pretty much have to do M+, rated PVP or be in a mythic guild. They took that avenue away from casuals and their subs dropped like a stone. I don’t think it’s coincidence.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Yinz-area-52

I don’t think the typical player has access to good guilds anymore. Most of the successful ones are made up of people who’ve known each other for years.

This is false. People just either don’t put the effort in to find a new guild or don’t know how.

@Yinz-area-52

Kind of like gated community. Gotta know someone to get in the elite groups. That’s why gold based carries got popular. Can’t be elite without elites helping out. At least to the majority of players anyways.

Strongly disagree.

[Yinz-area-52]

@Snozh-malganis

This is false.

Is it though? There are a whole lot of people out there, like me, who do not like M+ in the slightest. How am I supposed to get geared to hit up a mythic or heroic raiding guild? Answer: I don’t.

@Snozh-malganis

Strongly disagree.

Who do you think was selling boosts? High level guilds. Who were they selling boosts to? People who couldn’t get into high level guilds. We’re talking 250,000+ just to tag along. If getting gear wasn’t such an issue people wouldn’t be forking over billions of gold.

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Yinz-area-52

Now to get any kind of high level gear you pretty much have to do M+, rated PVP or be in a mythic guild. They took that avenue away from casuals and their subs dropped like a stone. I don’t think it’s coincidence.

Nice summary.

It doesn’t logically make sense that by shutting out casual, solo, and new players from meaningful gameplay or power progression you could help the game grow.

Current WoW devs tried to increase time played and appeal to the elitists by gatekeeping gear, but these tactics backfired and decimated the game’s sub numbers.

Many guilds fell apart in Cata, WoD, and SL, and left even more players out of the loop. WoW’s reputation has suffered greatly, and players that don’t already have a guild or team are less likely than ever to try WoW for the first time or return to the game.

[Yinz-area-52]

Cata hurt my guild, WoD beat it to death with a rake behind the shed.

The entire point of an MMO is gear progression. Now They funnel it through M+ and rated PVP. I can’t get my emissary boxes, or the other dozen ways I could get upgrades through titanforges or whatever was going on in Legion or BFA. My gear rewards are hard capped with renown.

I’m not joining a mythic or heroic raid anytime soon, so who cares if I got the occasional mythic piece through sheer dumb luck? Losing the casual crowd due to having no gear progression hurt their bottom line.

[Níghtstalker-malganis]

Ilvl gaps have been similar in the past. Since mid Wrath somewhere around ~40 ilvls below the highest available.

Two questions:
What do you need this gear for if you ever only play solo?
Why would raid grps form on lower difficulties if the rewards for solo play are better?

[Yinz-area-52]

@Níghtstalker-malganis

What do you need this gear for if you ever only play solo?

Why do you care what I do with my gear? Why do I need anything on my character?

@Níghtstalker-malganis

Why would raid grps form on lower difficulties if the rewards for solo play are better?

Reward is more like it. IN BFA for example, I could do one of the raid scenarios. Might get a decent upgrade twice a month, max. It wasn’t anywhere near efficient as raiding or M+, but for a lot of people who don’t have the time, it was something to aim for. Now, it’s not an option.

[Moiradelaluz-lightbringer (Moiradelaluz)]

@Eleusia-myzrael

It doesn’t logically make sense that by shutting out casual, solo, and new players from meaningful gameplay or power progression you could help the game grow.

They answer to a higher god. They’re still convinced that they can convert casuals into hardcore esports competitors by starving them of gear. Surely if they do more of the same and double down, they will see a different result. Just like with PvP, where they have doubled down on rating-locked ilvl PvP gear that earlier devs decided was bad for the game. But it’ll all turn itself around, and tens of millions of casuals will come running back, credit cards in hand, begging to pay. That’ll show Phil!

[Níghtstalker-malganis]

I hope you get your challenging solo gameplay in the future rewarding you with equivalent gear.

[Moiradelaluz-lightbringer (Moiradelaluz)]

Who me? I’ve given up on end game entirely. They don’t want people like me playing it, and I’ll probably never go back to anything remotely resembling it. They chose to push people like me off the track. They didn’t have to, but they did. Now they can live with the consequences of their actions.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Yinz-area-52

Is it though?

Yes it is false.

@Yinz-area-52

There are a whole lot of people out there, like me, who do not like M+ in the slightest.

I’m not a huge fan of mplus either

@Yinz-area-52

How am I supposed to get geared to hit up a mythic or heroic raiding guild? Answer: I don’t.

Getting geared without mplus is possible it just takes more time.

You farm the catch up gear in ZM and get full 233/246.

You then can do normal/heroic. You will need heroic logs to apply to any decent mythic guild.

Mythic guilds will require you to do atleast one key a week if you refuse to do that then why should a mythic guild carry you?

@Yinz-area-52

Who do you think was selling boosts? High level guilds. Who were they selling boosts to?

Everyone.

I know guildies that used boost money made form boosting to buy boosts for their Alts.

@Yinz-area-52

People who couldn’t get into high level guilds.

And people who wanted to skip the low level gearing.

@Yinz-area-52

We’re talking 250,000+ just to tag along.

Heroic sylvanus kills were 65k.

@Yinz-area-52

If getting gear wasn’t such an issue people wouldn’t be forking over billions of gold.

People have been buying boosts since vanilla.

[Yinz-area-52]

LoL. Thank you for invaliding my opinion with your own opinion.

[Snozh-malganis]

What part of what I said is based on an opinion?

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Níghtstalker-malganis

What do you need this gear for if you ever only play solo?

Torghast. Soloing rares. Doing literally any content more efficiently and qualifying for group content as an option.

@Níghtstalker-malganis

Why would raid grps form on lower difficulties if the rewards for solo play are better?

No one ever said that the rewards from solo play should be better, just closer to group content rewards.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Eleusia-myzrael

No one ever said that the rewards from solo play should be better, just closer to group content rewards.

Solo play had better than normal raid loot in Korthia and people still complained. Please stop lying.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Yinz-area-52

Solo players used to be able to get good rewards without needing guilds or finding M+ groups. Either daily/weekly chests, titanforging… patch features like the bfa invasions or grinding in nazjatar. With a little patience you could gear yourself up nicely on your own.

Now to get any kind of high level gear you pretty much have to do M+, rated PVP or be in a mythic guild. They took that avenue away from casuals and their subs dropped like a stone. I don’t think it’s coincidence.

I guess this depends on the definition of “high level” because you get normal raid gear for doing nothing.

[Yinz-area-52]

My bad. Please cite all your non-opinions with verifiable facts from an independent sources. Shouldn’t be too hard.

[Snozh-malganis]

I mean all you’re doing is making excuses. I gave you a very viable way to start mythic raiding if that’s what you really wanted.

Hate to break it to you but the only one to blame here is yourself.

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Moiradelaluz-lightbringer

They answer to a higher god. They’re still convinced that they can convert casuals into hardcore esports competitors by starving them of gear. Surely if they do more of the same and double down, they will see a different result. Just like with PvP, where they have doubled down on rating-locked ilvl PvP gear that earlier devs decided was bad for the game. But it’ll all turn itself around, and tens of millions of casuals will come running back, credit cards in hand, begging to pay. That’ll show Phil!

I am convinced that the current lead game dev is so arrogant and elitist that he refuses to do what is good for the game, and doesn’t answer to any god. Any logical business-minded person who has invested in WoW would not want to intentionally drive away the bulk of players just to be praised by elitist raiders. That’s why the Microsoft buyout will eventually lead to a better WoW for the average gamer.

Current WoW devs and top-end players didn’t want to go back to the better systems in Wrath, MoP, and Legion (where all sorts of players could benefit and co-exist), so the slate may have to be wiped clean or WoW will just keep shrinking.