End the war on solo gameplay in WoW

[Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

And in that many posts, not one like you has countered “then give us harder content” with anything but “solo players don’t want challenging content”.

In your ranting and foaming at the mouth give us one example of why Blizzard should devote resources to create something specifically for solo players? Show one significant advantage to the player base at large where that would do anything meaningful. Blizzard has enough trouble outputting enough content for the masses a it is without focusing on content that only a significant minority will appreciate or is asking for.

@Antiman-bloodhoof

This is another argument your kind fall back on, here is the thing, it might not have been the “expected” end game for everyone, but quite a bit became end game for some. In vannilla, there were those that just gathered mats for their guilds, there was the AQ war effort, as well as the move against the scourge. In BC there was IQD, Wrath brought the Argent Tourney, Cata the Molten Front, MoP had IoT/IoG and timeless isle.

Um yeah… sorry but you completely missed the point of all your examples. These were not in there to provide single player content. They were catch up mechanics to promote the very content solo players hate ie. Dungeons and Raids. AQ War effort was to gear up and prepare people that maybe had not done MC or BWL so they could get into AQ20/40. Tourney was to Get into Agent Tournament raid then ICC Raid. Molten Front was for Firelands Raid… While solo players could access the dailies and such none of the rewards were anywhere close to raid quality because you were able to successfully complete all that content with quest drops and drops during those features. It was strictly catch up mechanics not progression, which clearly you do not understand the difference between and all of which was directly marketed and geared towards getting people ready and into the dungeons and raid content that it was building up for. So yeah your argument against it is completely irrelevant since you miss the very concept of it.

@Antiman-bloodhoof

Here is the thing, I, or others, might not be able to BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST. This is pert of the problem. There is a range of skill and drive among solo players, yet you, and others keep reducing them to the “whaaaa it is too hard” ding-a-lings.

Again why should a minority group of players get special content created especially for them. You fail again to provide a single valid argument as to why a company designed on profit and attempting to create a successful game world should invest time appeasing the smallest, albiet vocal, group of players who have a specific gaming style. Sorry but WoW is at heart a multiplayer game, there are tons of excellent, much richer and better designed solo games out there. If solo players are unsatisfied with the state of the game they should look elsewhere instead of expecting to be catered to when they are the minority.

@Antiman-bloodhoof

Ahem, you just proved WHY people assume bias. My group? That is not solo only players, my group is those that: raid up to at least heroic, do M+ up to at least 15, AND do solo/world content. Maybe check the the one posting before lumping them in with others, or is that too much effort for you?

Not even sure what your point here is. My response to Eleusia that you tried to argue was misunderstanding her was to her comment :

@Eleusia-myzrael

Yes, exactly. I believe that the super-casual solo players should be able to achieve Normal iLvl gear (252 in 9.2) in all slots by doing easy world content (callings, world quests, assaults, etc.) or easy queued content (random daily Heroic dungeons, LFR, etc.) over time like the old Valor system, while the more hardcore solo players can achieve Heroic iLvl gear (265 in 9.2) by doing instanced content that scales based on the number of players (Torghast, Horrific Visions, island expeditions, etc.).

Again a solo player that is suggesting that without any of that content you listed should be given access to equivalent gear. Perhaps work on basic literacy and reading/comprehension before jumping into a conversation you clearly miss the concept of. Yet AGAIN with zero justification as to what content they wish to run, we see solo players that are stating they feel they require that level of gear that a raider who is accessing content harder than the solo player is getting. Sorry but gear should be given based on the difficulty and should be designed to assist with progression. Since there is no solo player progression content (IE you can kill every rare and non group boss in the game with the gear you can get from quest and world quests) there is no reason to increase the rewards for players that only want to do that level of difficulty. Not sure why that concept is so out of your comprehension level.

@Antiman-bloodhoof

It only dilutes when something is being made specifically for solo players, if they are making something, like Torghast, anyway, where is the dilution if it drops gear.

Try and keep up, there are those that indeed want gear for non-challenging content, yet there are also those that would be happy with just adjustments to what is already in game or being made.

Also, while the solo players might be a minority, ones like me are likely the true majority, so which would be smarter, cater to ones like me, who would enjoy the solo on top of everything else, and please the solo only players, or treat them like they don’t matter and deny both them and likely a good chunk of other players content?

Again as stated clearly, (perhaps you should take some remedial reading and comprehension classes… less Warcraft and more learning), Torgast is a one off system that was brought in for Shadowlands. It is highly unlikely we will see a similar system in the next expansion. Content like Torghast which is designed for fun and challenge is deliberately not giving gear so it does not become a mandatory item for the larger majority of players that do plan on doing dungeons and raid. It specifically was designed with cosmetic only rewards so that people could skip it beyond farming mats for a legendary if they wanted, and that was possible even at the easiest level so you could do it at whatever your skill level was. And the hypocrisy of your comment is astounding. Solo players “We don’t want to be forced to do content we don’t want to get gear” and yet adding gear which would make it a requirement for all players to do so they can stay up on gear level with other dungeon and raiding players is perfectly ok. So its only unfair if it is one group being forced to do something they do not like but when its others that is just fine. I do not enjoy torghast but as I like to ensure my toons are geared and ready to assist my parties and guild I would end up having to run torghast just to ensure I had all the possible upgrades for my toon. This is why blizzard did not do that path since they knew it would negatively affect the larger player base.

Catering to a player like you that does not understand the concept of resource/reward would be business suicide. Again with limited resources (which hopefully will increase with MS buying it) developing solo content to scale between “all levels and skill” is extremely difficult and costly. So as with most companies Blizzard goes with the most bang for your buck approach which is to identify the wants of the vast majority of the player base and focus on the elements that the most players can benefit from. While raiders and m+ players might enjoy temporarily more fun solo content, if offered the choice between more dungeons and raids and more solo content since it would be impractical to try and do everything the majority will pick the dungeons and raids since again the concept of the game is MMO so most players are here for the interaction with others, the solo story and game of WoW while in many ways in the past has been excellent, when compared to the many solo RPG games out there today is sorely lacking and clearly not where the focus is.

Again all this boils down to is a minority of players wanting access to better rewards without having to complete the content level where those rewards are warranted. The fact when challenged to provide one single example of any “solo” player content that is not capable of being completed with the quest/world quest/zone drops gear proves there is no actual “war on solo players”. Again lots of people in this thread have asked the same thing. Show one, just one singular item that is clearly unable to be completed by a solo player with the zone/wq equivalent gear and that has not been done. There has not been a single example of any actual issue where a solo player is limited by anything other than skill to accomplish any of the solo content available. Feel free to show one single world encounter out there where the korthia or zen mortis now gear is not sufficient? if not you should probably just stop trying to argue since anything you say will just sound weak and pathetic since without any evidence of a real issue you can not seem to understand why many players are looking at this as nothing more than a “solo” player wanting free loot upgrades.

[Grymes-mankrik]

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Again in over 2000 posts not a single “solo” player has given a reasonable argument as to why their character needs more ilvl other than " we want it" or “it will make end content easier”

It would be nice to be able to queue for random battlegrounds again, but the gear available to me is pathetic and would only get me eaten alive.

Either make better gear accessible or put an ilvl cap on random battlegrounds.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Catering to a player like you that does not understand the concept of resource/reward would be business suicide.

So let me get this straight, catering to the real majority of players, I.E. ones that enjoy all forms of content, would be business suicide? Where as catering to the extreme minorities on both ends is not?

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Content like Torghast which is designed for fun and challenge is deliberately not giving gear so it does not become a mandatory item for the larger majority of players that do plan on doing dungeons and raid.

Nope, it would only make it mandatory for idiotic min/maxers that can’t control themselves, like solo players don’t have to do group content, those that raid, Do M+. which ideally would reward better gear faster, would not have to do it beyond legos.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Show one, just one singular item that is clearly unable to be completed by a solo player with the zone/wq equivalent gear and that has not been done.

Maybe you missed it, but what you ask can’t be done because it does not exist, all “solo content” is nerfed to no end because of the ones that whine when things are too hard. Put something that they can use the gear in to push against and we will talk. If not that, provide those of lesser skill a way to gear up to overcome that discrepancy so they can continue to progress as they like.

Maybe instead of asking for things not in game, you try reading and seeing if there are not any underlying issues. Like lack of challenging content due to loud mouth whiners who really do want everythign handed to them crying for nerfs.

[Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord]

@Grymes-mankrik

It would be nice to be able to queue for random battlegrounds again, but the gear available to me is pathetic and would only get me eaten alive.

Either make better gear accessible or put an ilvl cap on random battlegrounds.

Better gear is accessible. Sorry if you do not like the content or ways to get it, but that is your personal issue not the game communities. Why should the game have to cater to give you a special way to get gear so you can compete when you don’t want to do it the same way everyone else is? If someone queues up that has spent hours working hard on a dungeon or raid and has better gear, why should they not get an advantage over someone who is not willing to put the same level of effort in. Sorry but even in the real world the playing field is not flat, those that work harder get rewarded.

As for the ilvl cap, thats fine if you want to spend days waiting for enough of the solo players who are not gearing themselves out of your bracket to queue up. And whats a fair difference? 10 ilvl or is that too unfair that someone has maybe 2-3 better item drops? Where is the ilvl cap ? how arbitrary can it be? And the game already does try to balance the level of gear on teams but it would become almost unusable system if it had to wait for an exact ilvl match of 10 players on each team, and your assumption you lost was because of ilvl could just be that you lost because you ran into a more skilled player.

[Grymes-mankrik]

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Why should the game have to cater to give you a special way to get gear so you can compete when you don’t want to do it the same way everyone else is?

Because it did at one point, and I have a right to be upset about that.

This elitist mindset is what is driving people away from the game, and your hardcore content is going to suffer in turn over time as a result too.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

and your assumption you lost was because of ilvl could just be that you lost because you ran into a more skilled player.

There is no “outskilling” a 55k+ dude as a 25k player. There just isn’t.

[Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

So let me get this straight, catering to the real majority of players, I.E. ones that enjoy all forms of content, would be business suicide? Where as catering to the extreme minorities on both ends is not?

You make the assumption I do not like solo player content, having been in WoW since beta before vanilla lauch there is very little content I haven’t seen or played. But the simple point is most solo player content is one time over, look at the very intro to Zereth Mortis. The vast majority of players I know were thrilled not to have to do the repeatable intro on each alt. So your assumption that you are the majority is what is incredibly funny. The fact that you think Blizzard doesn’t know the metrics of its player base is what is so silly again I pity your level of comprehension. Again you make wild assumptions, provide zero evidence to support your opinion and prance around like somehow you have the answers when everything you say just shows you can not comprehend what is going on.

@Antiman-bloodhoof

Nope, it would only make it mandatory for idiotic min/maxers that can’t control themselves, like solo players don’t have to do group content, those that raid, Do M+. which ideally would reward better gear faster, would not have to do it beyond legos.

So solo players should be catered to but min/maxers are idiotic… ok thanks for proving your opinion is vapid and completly unstable. Blizzard, again the company that produces this game, specifically said they planned Torghast the way they did for the very reason that many players would feel forced, but hey I am sure the company that designs the game has no metrics and data to suggest what the actual player base break down is and what groups want what. I mean that would be ridiculous to expect a billion dollar company to actually you know look at the metrics…

@Antiman-bloodhoof

Maybe you missed it, but what you ask can’t be done because it does not exist, all “solo content” is nerfed to no end because of the ones that whine when things are too hard. Put something that they can use the gear in to push against and we will talk.

Maybe instead of asking for things not in game, you try reading and seeing if there are not any underlying issues. Like lack of challenging content due to loud mouth whiners who really do want everythign handed to them crying for nerfs.

Claiming you cant provide evidence because it doesn’t exist is precisely why people have no use for the idiocy of this “war on solo players” nonsense. And if all the “solo” player wanted was more challenging content why are they asking for better gear rewards? I mean if the solo content is so devoid of challenge as it is, what is the reason we have a player specifically saying:

@Eleusia-myzrael

I believe that the super-casual solo players should be able to achieve Normal iLvl gear (252 in 9.2) in all slots by doing easy world content (callings, world quests, assaults, etc.) or easy queued content (random daily Heroic dungeons, LFR, etc.)

I mean maybe if they didn’t go right to the “give me free normal level raid equivalent loot” then maybe some people would take them serious, but again it was instantly about the quality of gear for them, not " we need more challenging solo content" it is all gripe about some players getting more rewards than they.

Or here is another jewel of a line

@Eleusia-myzrael

complaining on the forums because it was so much more overtuned than what people were expecting, and they had no way to outgear it to make up for lack of skill.

Show me vast amounts of mythic raider than can outgear the current mythic dungeon to the point that mechanics can be completely ignored and no skill required. While there are definitely some players out there, they are not the unskilled ones. So no, there is no mythic equivalent where a mythic player without skill can just out gear the level of their content, why should “solo” players be given that option.

Again all your argument is based around some nonsense concept that their isnt enough solo challenge content, but every thread like this always ends up with " But we need raid tier gear equivalent rewards", its not about wanting more challenging content, its wanting reward levels that are not related to the effort put in, if it was truly the case there would never be a mention of the gear level or reward level and it wouldn’t be about how solo players are not treated right. But when you have comments like:

@Eleusia-myzrael

these players had no way to get stronger to meet the challenge.

That again makes people tired of this kind of nonsense. Every player has a choice if they want to do solo content only then they are of their own free will limiting themselves. It’s there decision that they do not want to do the other content out there that is designed to allow them to get better gear to do other content. It is not Blizzard, or the gaming communities responsibility to cater to a player who make a decision that limits what they can do. Its a shame they do not want to do the other content, but like everything else in life you sometimes have to decide what your priorities are. I would love to sit at home all day and play Warcraft and other video games, but I have to pay for a place to live and food and look after my pets. That means I have to make the choice to go out and work and therefore can’t just get everything handed to me, even if I would rather not work. Just like a solo player, if they want the higher level gear so they can attempt other things then they like everyone else have to do the content that gives that gear, even if its not the content or play style they prefer. So yes when they complain about how there is nothing they can do, when it is really just nothing they WANT to do, then yeah they can expect not to get a ton of sympathy from players, especially since most of the nerfs are because of them.

Because they chose not to get geared up beyond what was available as dailies the first few weeks of a patch is more challenging since the new content also has to have some value or challenge for those with higher gear levels. So yes the solo player is going to have to do more of the dailies and more of the other content the first few weeks till they are geared to the right level for that new content, however that is the same for a raider when the new raid opens. But no, they come in and cry because the raider who is higher level can hit that new content faster then they because the raider came in with a higher start. It is not the raider or M+ player crying that the new solo content is too hard, its the solo player who thinks they should be able to come in on day one of new “end game content” for them and breeze through it.

@Antiman-bloodhoof

If not that, provide those of lesser skill a way to gear up to overcome that discrepancy so they can continue to progress as they like.

Again why? Why should they get given anything that they are not willing to work on? Does a raider get to log in on the day of a new raid and instantly have the gear level required for that raid? no? The raider has to do the solo content too till they hit the level they need. So yes a new raid launches tuesday and there will be raiders that are going to go in there and do better, the ones that completed mythic SoD. The groups that finished normal only will have to work at it and it will take more time, thats how the game works, and you havent given one decent excuse as to why that should be changed other than “it should be because we said it should be”

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Grymes-mankrik

There is no “outskilling” a 55k+ dude as a 25k player. There just isn’t.

Well, might depend if the 55k+ one got carried to that some how

Seriously though, most solo players would just be happy with a path to progress on.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

I mean maybe if they didn’t go right to the “give me free normal level raid equivalent loot” then maybe some people would take them serious, but again it was instantly about the quality of gear for them, not " we need more challenging solo content"

And here is part you missed:

@Eleusia-myzrael

over time like the old Valor system, while the more hardcore solo players can achieve Heroic iLvl gear (265 in 9.2) by doing instanced content that scales based on the number of players (Torghast, Horrific Visions, island expeditions, etc.).

I.E. that high gear? yeah, locked behind a grind, not just handed to them. Maybe if ones like you fully read and comprehended, you would see that not everyone wants “free” or “instant” gear.

hey, maybe if the gear from things like Torghast is a real issue, maybe the raids and such can be released in the .0 patches and the solo stuff (aside from things like ZM and Korthia) in the .5 ones.

[Grymes-mankrik]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

Seriously though, most solo players would just be happy with a path to progress on.

I’d be happy with that, or even just an ilvl cap on random BGs so I don’t feel like I have to be a gladiator in order to do random PvP.

As it stands though, there’s no point in trying to PvP if there’s no gearing path for it. The “d00dz who earned it” don’t even get the opportunity to beat me up if I’m not letting them. I’m one less person queuing for them as a result, and add up enough players like me, and a big portion of the game suffers (PvP).

I’m just doing what I can to enjoy the game by myself right now on the PvE/achievement side of things, but if the game is going to continue to treat people like me like garbage, what point is there in continuing to pay a sub? I imagine a lot of folks have been driven out of the game already. Whether the hardcore base wants to admit it or not, they’re going to feel the pain as well when their content isn’t as well funded.

[Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord]

@Grymes-mankrik

Because it did at one point, and I have a right to be upset about that.

This elitist mindset is what is driving people away from the game, and your hardcore content is going to suffer in turn over time as a result too.

Um the game never once catered to you. Sorry but if you were not willing to do the hardest content you were always going to lose in pvp. Vanilla WoW, guess who had the highest pvp ratings? The raiders with the full raid sets because they significantly out geared the ones that only did pvp, and the system actually was setup to keep it that way with the only way to increase your rank was to basically be better than so many other players each week.

Sorry if you feel you should be able to compete with someone who puts more effort into something than you. Thats just not how real life works and not how any competitive gaming system works either. Other players shouldn’t be held back simply because they are either more skilled or have more time to invest in this game than you and are willing to do content you don’t like.

Even en they started with the pvp gear that had vers on it, the player in raid gear would still win until the pvp gear player out ilvled them if it was an even skilled fight.

Sorry but competitive play is not fun if its handicapped or designed to give crutches to players who wont put the effort in.

@Grymes-mankrik

There is no “outskilling” a 55k+ dude as a 25k player. There just isn’t.

Again nothing but yourself and your attitude is preventing you from getting that gear. Even in PVP you can get that level of gear solo by going in, taking losses till you build up enough honor to buy gear to get competitive. But if you are not willing to do that, then again the only person you have to blame is yourself. Why should it be given to you at the start allowing you to bypass the work. Thats what all these post seem to suggest that somehow the game should just magically make it so everyone regardless of effort is given the same level of gear so its fair, how does that make it fair to those willing to do more work or put more effort in?

[Vior-emerald-dream]

End the war? It’s only just begun! Hahahaha

Just kidding. Sorry you’re disappointed.

[Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

I.E. that high gear? yeah, locked behind a grind, not just handed to them. Maybe if ones like you fully read and comprehended, you would see that not everyone wants “free” or “instant” gear.

You mean repeated the same daily quest that takes 2 minutes 10 times to get enough badges, without doing any actual difficulty progression, or having to learn mechanics or practice with other players should be treated the same as spending hours wiping on a boss learning mechanics…

You see thats why the valor system doesn’t work that way. That s why raid gear isn’t given out that way because yes, if you can do the same repeatable quest and get the same item (garaunteed even!, imagine if a raider could reliably target only the loot items they wanted instead of hoping that this week is there week when they get the drop even though they may have spent 10 hours over a few months killing the same boss hoping for the drop).

Maybe try understanding how the systems work before trying to suggest I didn’t read. The difference is I read it, understood the implications of it, while you read it and just looked for a shallow “but they said this so I must be right” content. That is why trying to explain anything to you is pointless because you simply lack the comprehension of understanding the very core of how the systems work. A raider has to do everything a “solo” player has to, they have to gear to the level required and then they have to learn the mechanic and do the work and yet still might not get a reward. And you think a solo player who does X amount of repeatable world quests should ever get the same reward (and not only that without the randomness of it) as someone that puts in as much effort as raiders, or pvp players shows just how incapable of honest thought you are.

[Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord]

@Grymes-mankrik

As it stands though, there’s no point in trying to PvP if there’s no gearing path for it. The “d00dz who earned it” don’t even get the opportunity to beat me up if I’m not letting them. I’m one less person queuing for them as a result, and add up enough players like me, and a big portion of the game suffers (PvP).

Um guess what. I started this season of PVP without any pvp gear. I spent a few days getting my butt handed to me on the toon I was on till I got enough honor to start buying gear and getting caught up. Your post suggests that this is way too much work for you, and yet we are supposed to feel bad that you feel left out because even the smallest effort seems insurmountable to you. Again you don’t like the path or you feel it is too hard. The issue isn’t the game, its on you. Get a mirror before complaining that the game is the problem.

Sorry but again the guy that got gladiator, he probably lost a crazy amount at the start too, he stayed with it, worked at it for weeks before he got to the level where he is. And guess what, he probably ran into the same problem at times where he got into a match and was completely outclassed. The only difference is he stayed with it, instead of quitting and posting on the forums about how unfair it is that someone else who worked hard is able to beat you.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

You mean repeated the same daily quest that takes 2 minutes 10 times to get enough badges, without doing any actual difficulty progression, or having to learn mechanics or practice with other players should be treated the same as spending hours wiping on a boss learning mechanics…

For normal ilvl gear, I.E. the same that world content provided in Korthia at maximum, though locked behind chores, not even randome normal or heroic or a pug mythic 0 provides anything that would help there (aside from the gear such drops)

The old, I.E. Wrath/Cata, valor system rewarded the badges for weekly dungeon and raid quests, all that would have been added in this case would be, the callings (provide valor as is), world bosses, weekly Korthia/ZM quests, etc. Even I would not do Valor for World quests unless they were elite ones (ones that recommend a group). Blizzard can tweak the numbers to the rate of acquisition they want. For me, since it would be for the lowest common denominator of solo player, I’d likely make it patch long for full gear if one did the bare minimum every day.

[Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

For normal ilvl gear, I.E. the same that world content provided in Korthia at maximum, though locked behind chores, not even randome normal or heroic or a pug mythic 0 provides anything that would help there (aside from the gear such drops)

Again you have not given any valid example of why a player doing only solo content needs gear of ilvl 252 which is what normal raid gives. And they are not asking for just extra chances at the existing loot they are already getting. They are specifically suggesting they should be given gear level equivalent with someone doing a raid and that is just ridiculous.
Someone putting in the effort that is involved in raid or high level dungeon content not only has a much more random system of loot to deal with, as an example I can look at a chart and see when the specific item I want from a world quest is available and do that quest with a guarantee that I will get that reward, while as a raider I might kill the same boss 10 times and get nothing at all if I have bad luck.

And what about the raiders and pvp players who spend hours working on boss fights or competing in arenas? What do you do to compensate them? Part of the very reason why there is unique gear and such for higher level content is a reward for those players who put in the effort to get that. Be it from raiding or pvp.

Do we ask blizzard to go ahead and create yet another skin version of each item, one for the solo players so that raiders and pvp players can still have something worth working on. I mean look at Tier 1 and Tier 2 in Vanilla WoW. It wasn’t just the set stats that players wanted, it was the feeling of “hey look, I worked hard doing something specific and this is the reward”. Now you want to make it. I logged in, I did a few quests, I got the same loot as that player spending weeks in a raid did !"

And again why? What does it do giving the solo player more loot. The complaint is that the solo content is too easy already, so why increase the gear level… Not only that they already can once they max out everything in Zereth Mortis get to 252 ilvl gear. That path is already there and isn’t sufficient apparently.

Lets look at it this way. You increase the difficulty of solo content, you give the solo player more loot… they still hit the same game cap they hit now since there will always have to be higher level rewards for those that do the harder level content.

And you will still have the same problem of players not wanting to grind either, look at the pvp comment just recently. Another “but there is no way for me to compete” despite the fact that there are several, just not the ones they want. That is why catering the the minority player base is a big waste of resources, you will always have some that have an excuse as to why they can’t compete or why they don’t want to do this or that content.

Can blizzard improve on solo player content? sure, but it makes no sense to focus on it or over reward a minority of players who just happen to be vocal.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Again you have not given any valid example of why a player doing only solo content needs gear of ilvl 252 which is what normal raid gives. And they are not asking for just extra chances at the existing loot they are already getting. They are specifically suggesting they should be given gear level equivalent with someone doing a raid and that is just ridiculous.

In the past, I have argued for such, but itemized or with effects that make it good in world/solo content but not in raid, think Benthic gear, if you played BfA Nazjitar patch, if the bonuses were not active in EP

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

while as a raider I might kill the same boss 10 times and get nothing at all if I have bad luck.

Part of what I am arguing for is a system that ones like us, raiders who might have bad luck, to be able to counter said bad luck or supplement the drops, like the valor idea? I’d make it so raid bosses dropped oodles of it. It is just that such a system might also benefit the solo players. We would still get it faster though. And, if done right, our loot would be specific to bosses we have downed, not higher then what we have done (so we could not get mythic lvl gear without a mythic boss kill, and then only that boss)

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

You increase the difficulty of solo content, you give the solo player more loot… they still hit the same game cap they hit now since there will always have to be higher level rewards for those that do the harder level content.

And there are those that could care less about having mythic gear, the hard part here would be matching difficulty with gear drops. Like has to be as hard as a heroic raid for heroic ilvl gear.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Can blizzard improve on solo player content? sure

I think tis is what a lot are after, improvement with corresponding rewards (even if they don’t increase difficulty, so no need for gear level, can they at least make it fun to keep people interested?)

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

but it makes no sense to focus on it

This is one reason why I suggested the solo stuff, that is not a ley factor of the over all patch, be released in the .5 patches, where the things might already be in (torghast) but it could just be as simple as flipping a switch or as hard as trying to get it just right.

As far as the vocal though, hard to say if solo players really are a minority (at least as much as some make them out to be), like you say there will always be those with an excuse, but even I and others have said there is a range of skill and drive for solo players, the vocal ones might just be the ones low on both.

[Renedre-dalaran]

My item level is 135 but I don’t give a damn. I just chill in my garrison and maybe do some solo WoD raid runs and gold farming. I pay my sub and I do whatever I want.

[Fartknox-arathor]

@Grymes-mankrik

Because it did at one point, and I have a right to be upset about that.

this is the key point that these elitists don’t understand. Blizzard intentionally made the solo experience progressively better from Vanilla all the way to its peak in Legion (especially for solo altoholics), and then they suddenly threw it into reverse. it was a struggle in BfA, and then absolutely insufferable in SL. BLIZZARD set our expectations for what the solo experience should be, and then pulled the rug out from under us. if Blizzard doesn’t want to make a game that appeals to this type of player anymore, that’s fine, i’ll move on. but don’t pretend this game was never meant for solo players, because it very clearly was. by design.

[Grymes-mankrik]

@Fartknox-arathor

it was a struggle in BfA

I agree with everything except this part. BfA was perfect for me. I was 460+ item level as a solo player (with good essences and corruptions to boot) in a world where 475 was the max ilvl. That was awesome. As much crap as BfA got I still felt like I had a place in it. Good solo progression and decent gear through horrific visions, a 460 PvP piece every week just capping my conquest, and so on. I didn’t even touch a normal+ raid or M+ dungeon, and I could hold my own in PvP.

I wish they’d just bring the BfA style back.

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

If that is not your desire than maybe look for a game that caters to your play style and interests and stop trying to ruin something for others just so you can have what you want.

Rewarding different types of players and gameplay isn’t going to ruin WoW—in fact it is the only thing that could save this game as interest in raiding dies out.

Solo players getting rewarded doesn’t negate the rewards of group content players. It is elitist players that have ruined the game for non-competitive players by complaining about rewards from solo or casual content until the devs removed or nerfed them.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

If that is not what you like than honestly the game is not for you. It was not meant for you, and shouldn’t be bent to become for you just because you showed up.

You can’t say that WoW is not for me when expansions like Wrath, MoP, Legion, and BfA were great for me and my gameplay habits. I was perfectly happy without competitive group content because the game systems provided means for me to progress. All I want is for WoW to go back to that.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Why should Blizzard invest a ton of resources and effort to placate a small minority who does not like the main aspects of the game.

Bumping up items levels from world content or adding gear drops to Torghast would barely take any additional resources at all. Or devs could add Valor to a daily Heroic dungeon and put a Valor vendor in Oribos.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Why should it have to change because you want it to revolve around yourself and your desires?

There are millions of players with similar interests as me, and the game grew when it rewarded us on some level instead of refusing to include us in max-level systems. Don’t you want WoW to be big again?

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

You do not want to play with other players

I am happy to play with other players if the content is casual instanced content or open world content. But when group content is artificially made difficult by dozens of affixes and mechanics, things can easily go toxic.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Content like Torghast which is designed for fun and challenge is deliberately not giving gear so it does not become a mandatory item for the larger majority of players that do plan on doing dungeons and raid. It specifically was designed with cosmetic only rewards so that people could skip it beyond farming mats for a legendary if they wanted, and that was possible even at the easiest level so you could do it at whatever your skill level was.

Torghast would not be mandatory even if it dropped gear. Competitive players would not bother to do it just for downgrades.

Devs refuse to add gear to Torghast because they are desperate to get raiding participation higher to justify its development expenses. And they added legendary mats to Torghast to force competitive players into doing it for supplementary power gains, when the legendary mats should have just been obtainable from any endgame content.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

Thats what all these post seem to suggest that somehow the game should just magically make it so everyone regardless of effort is given the same level of gear so its fair, how does that make it fair to those willing to do more work or put more effort in?

Of course, the level of gear should not be the same for world content and Mythic raids, for example. But the gap in Shadowlands is way too high, and solo and/or casual players cannot compete in content like Torghast because the devs tuned it with the gear from competitive group content in mind.

I am willing to put in time and effort for my gear, by the way. An MMO would actually feel unrewarding if you logged in on the patch day in max iLvl gear and didn’t have any way to progress!

@Grymes-mankrik

It would be nice to be able to queue for random battlegrounds again, but the gear available to me is pathetic and would only get me eaten alive.

Gearing up through random battlegrounds used to be an endgame in and of itself for a significant portion of the playerbase.

But now in Shadowlands, if you gear up solely through unrated battlegrounds you are just going to be fodder for the meat grinder, because Honor gear is so low in item level despite the huge Honor cost to upgrade a full set.

@Antiman-bloodhoof

hey, maybe if the gear from things like Torghast is a real issue, maybe the raids and such can be released in the .0 patches and the solo stuff (aside from things like ZM and Korthia) in the .5 ones.

I think WoW devs are already thinking this way on some level, although their answer is always just to timegate the world content rewards. The 9.0 covenant sets and 9.1 Korthia gear were able to be upgraded to their max ranks only after months had passed in their respective patches, and it is probably going to take a while before the typical players can max out their Zereth Mortis gear in 9.2 due to the amount of cyphers and research time required.

At the start of a new season, competitive players are always desperate to upgrade their gear as high as possible as soon as possible, and the devs hold those first few weeks of raid progression as sacred—so perhaps solo and/or casual players (who are not in such a rush) can stand on the sidelines for a couple months, until solo content with worthwhile gear rewards is introduced in a .5 patch.

All I can say for now is that by the time 9.2.5 is released, we are going to need a whole lot more power progression than what Zereth Mortis offers if you expect us to stay in the game for a year or so until the next expansion comes around. I know that dev resources are tight and they are now focused on 10.0, but the expac would be salvageable if devs tweaked existing systems.

[Trashydruid-moon-guard]

the fact that 9.2 and Zerith Mortis is a ghost town because Blizz went on a Ban wave just to be punitive towards anyone who got help for impossibly overtuned content is evidence of the OP’s grievance – anyone who isn’t “besties” with a guild to down advanced content cannot play this game anymore. Funny how Blizz shoots itself in the foot by telling subscribers to just stop playing rather than making the game have achievable outcomes.