Before ZM, this could be in question, as they seemed to go more or a lot of easy content for solo players instead of content of various difficulties or less but more interesting content.
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It has to be easy, otherwise the same people cry that itâs too hard.
False, the ones that want the harder content and the ones that cry abotu it being too hard are 2 different groups bat both claim the title of âsolo/casual playerâ.
I also said interesting content, I.E. if it has to be easy, fine, but at least mix it up a little, introduce different ways of doing it, etc.
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If they are both using the same title, itâs not two different groups lol.
Sure they are, considering the second group is one that, more or less, wants their high level gear mailed to them. But who wants to admit that?
Even if they are the same group, they are not all of the same mind, to treat them as such is moronic.
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So this group you speak of, which apparently uses the same self described title as another group, wants something completely different from that other group, and somehow Blizzard should know this?
lol wut?
They can design of both, if one wants gear handed to them, so be it, give them the crap they have gotten up till ZM and let them be happy with cuch.
Give the rest scaling challenge, harder content to do solo, etc.
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So Mage Tower and pre-nerf Torghast?
Well, fix tuning issues, bugs, etc. but yeah
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OkâŠand?
Iâm still failing to see where they arenât giving people what they want, or at least pretend to want. I suppose they could revert any nerfs to Torghast but my gut feeling is the crying will happen once again.
It likely will, but the could make the pre-nerf version heroic torghast or something and keep the current as is for those just doing it for cinders or whatever.
The thig is, if player power is behind it, it needs at least a version that can be done by everyone. Anyone that complains anything else there is âtoo hardâ needs to be told in no uncertain terms that not all content is made for everyone.
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Cant do the harder gear without better equipment tho
Gotta reclear the raid and get to a power level where you can start selling carries.
Me after reading title pre-9.2:
âYeah, solo content in general has been lacking this expansion.â
Me after reading title post-9.2:
âItâs gotten betterâ
Me after reading this:
Consider doing non-trivial content, and then Iâll care.
Yes, exactly. I believe that the super-casual solo players should be able to achieve Normal iLvl gear (252 in 9.2) in all slots by doing easy world content (callings, world quests, assaults, etc.) or easy queued content (random daily Heroic dungeons, LFR, etc.) over time like the old Valor system, while the more hardcore solo players can achieve Heroic iLvl gear (265 in 9.2) by doing instanced content that scales based on the number of players (Torghast, Horrific Visions, island expeditions, etc.).
But currently, with no viable solo gearing path available in 9.2 whatsoever, we canât really distinguish between the multiple types of solo players. They have a spectrum of preferences and skill levels, and WoW needs to do more to accommodate more of them.
Mage Tower got a lot of complaining on the forums because it was so much more overtuned than what people were expecting, and they had no way to outgear it to make up for lack of skill.
Torghast Layer 8 pre-nerf got a lot of complaints because early in the patch undergeared players who had done lower layers were not expecting it to be so difficultâand because Torghast doesnât drop gear, these players had no way to get stronger to meet the challenge.
As Antiman said above, if Blizzard is to implement challenging solo instances with gear rewards, there need to be multiple levels of difficulty with increasing iLvl gear rewards, so that players can work their way up.
If the most challenging âlayerâ is too difficult for many players but awards Heroic iLvl gear for example, casual and/or solo players who are operating in an independent non-time-sensitive environment will have to learn to accept the rewards from the lower layers until they gear up or become skilled enough to handle the max layer. Or maybe they will accept that the highest layer is just too difficult because the rewards are so high, just as they accept that Mythic raiding is out of reach for most people.
The problem with designing any rewards system is that the min-max players who do group content have to have any power rewards (no matter how small the differential) and they have to have it as soon as the game allows it. So these types of players will claim that they are being forced to do âbrain-deadâ content.
Layer 8 Torghast (when first released) was more than likely nerfed because the min-maxers were afraid they would not be able to complete it by the end of the week and miss out on a tiny amount of Soul Ash. The nerf was more about group content players getting denied their legendaries ASAP, as Shadowlands devs obviously couldnât care less about rewarding solo playersâwho had little reason to do Torghast other than for amusement or challenge.
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Gear from outdoor zones will be capped out at 246 iLvl (the equivalent of 194 iLvl in 9.0 and 220 iLvl in 9.1), and gear rewards from outdoor zones and unrated PvP will be ineligible to be converted to tier pieces.
Pretty sure you can get up to ilvl 252 armor with Cypher Equipment. You upgrade your Cypher gear through the Cypher system to level 6 and boom 252. The Cypher system is all Zerith Mortis questline. No group content needed. Add that with 2 legendaries and I think thatâs pretty fair.
Sorry but your kind of post is exactly what is killing WoW. Warcraft was always a difficulty vs reward system. Vanilla had no world quest gear. If you wanted gear above quest gear you went into dungeons or you went into raiding. If that is not your desire than maybe look for a game that caters to your play style and interests and stop trying to ruin something for others just so you can have what you want.
Blizzard needs to stop pandering to these kind of crying âbut I donât have as much time as othersâ, " I donât like raiding/dungeons" , " I donât like PVP". If that is not what you like than honestly the game is not for you. It was not meant for you, and shouldnât be bent to become for you just because you showed up.
This self entitled nonsense is a joke. " devs obvious couldnât care less about rewarding solo players". Why should they? Why should Blizzard invest a ton of resources and effort to placate a small minority who does not like the main aspects of the game. Going into dungeons and doing challenging content with groups was always what the game was about about. Why should it have to change because you want it to revolve around yourself and your desires?
Layer 8 Torghast was nerfed because it was badly scaled and so no group was enjoying it. Stop making up nonsense to justify your âbeliefâ that somehow you deserve to have content geared around you.
Its always the same story from players like you:
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I donât have as much time as other players!. Nerf things that take time or gate them so that others cant get ahead of me because my schedule doesnât allow for the same or I am unwilling to put the same effort in.
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I donât like that content, but I should still get the same rewards because I pay my subscription. No the world does not work that way. Effort matters. Sorry to break it to you but those that put in more effort deserve more reward. Thats the very core concept behind any âreward systemâ
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But me me me me. Yeah its time to understand that you are not a special snow flake. You have your own desired and play style. That is great! Find a game that caters to that and enjoy it to your hearts content. Stop trying to force everything around you to conform to your own personal desires. There are a larger group of players in Warcraft that do like grouping and running raids or dungeons or doing pvp. Sorry but democracies are not minority run, its will of the majority and if the majority of players like content you donât well then unfortunately you are probably in the wrong place.
If you are playing a game and do not want to do challenging content âsolo players- who had little reason to do Torghast other than for amusement or challengeâ why are you here? I mean really. You do not want to play with other players, you do not want to do the vast majority of content, and yet you feel the game should adapt to suit you. Talk about arrogance.
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Sorry, but your kind of post just shows how idiotic some people are when it comes to solo contentâŠ
Warcraft was always a difficulty vs. reward system? yes, but in the post you quoted she was after a system that went up in difficulty. I mean she even used things that also scaled with group size, like Torghast and Horrific visions. She even suggested multiple levels of difficulty, what would make it so aside from some number tuning?
You say they donât want to do raids/dungeons? well, what could things like Torgahst be counted as?
Who said it could not have been a bit of column A and a bit of Column B?? Also âcontent geared around themâ? What if the content they want is something that gives them a chance to progress, say scaling difficulty, but does not interfere with other paths, like dungeons and raids?
Oh, give me a break, here is what players like you always come across as:
- Solo players donât want challenging content, they always complain whne things are too hard for them so they donât want to put in the effort
- the only effort that counts is what we do, time =/= effort, well I hate to break it to YOU but time can, and sometimes does=effort, more so if people at least have a challenge to push against until they beat it
- âthey are forcing their way on usâ one word: HYPOCRITE you are forcing your way on them, yet donât see it in reverse? A lot of the ideas she suggested, if stupid min/maxers complained abotu being forced to do it,
Hey, would Layer 8 Torghats pre-nerf not be challenging content? or does it not count because one can do it solo?
Maybe they like being with other people in the world, but everyone does their own thing,
Given how toxic some are, and how the bad ones always seem to stick out more, can you blame them?
Sorry, I thought this was WORLD of warcraft, not dungeons/raids of warcraft
Sure, adapt, but adapt could just mean use the systems in place, like Torghast, and expand on them for the solo or even small group player. It does not have to cut dungeons or raids out, it does not need to interfere with PvP, It could just be somthing like Torghast, which could drop gear based on layer completed, like M+ does for keys. The higher the layer, the better the gear, hit a road block? gear up from lower layers and work on skill. Is that not similar to what M+ runners do or raiders when the raid first comes out?.
Learn to read and comprehend things before spouting off, you might just learn what it is people actually want instead of your own preconceived notions which are based on nothing but idiotic bias.
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Sorry, but your kind of post just shows how idiotic some people are when it comes to solo contentâŠ
Sorry maybe you missed where the game is marketed as an MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online). Maybe when you realize the game is at its base level not marketed with solo players as being the central focus you may come to understand why the main focus is on content that can be enjoyed by multiple players.
Warcraft was always a difficulty vs. reward system? yes, but in the post you quoted she was after a system that went up in difficulty. I mean she even used things that also scaled with group size, like Torghast and Horrific visions. She even suggested multiple levels of difficulty, what would make it so aside from some number tuning?
**âShadowlands devs obviously couldnât care less about rewarding solo playersâwho had little reason to do Torghast other than for amusement or challenge.â Direct quote from her which sounds like she isnât really caring to do things that are not giving her items since for amusement or challenge isnât enough Again easily translated into give me a reward for doing lesser content that is equal to that of those putting more effort in or doing content I do not like
You say they donât want to do raids/dungeons? well, what could things like Torgahst be counted as?
Again why should Blizzard focus large amounts of resources developing content for the smallest group of people. You still fail to address this in any meaningful way. Would it be nice of Blizzard to do? Sure. Would it be practical or good planning . No. Taking resources away from supporting the majority of the player base who do like dungeons and raids and pvp is not effective and only supports a very small group of players.
Who said it could not have been a bit of column A and a bit of Column B?? Also âcontent geared around themâ? What if the content they want is something that gives them a chance to progress, say scaling difficulty, but does not interfere with other paths, like dungeons and raids?
Um the devs themselves indicated their reasoning as being that noone was having fun with the scaling so um yeah⊠As far as creating a new special scaling for a few solo players again not a very viable use of limited resources. You could spend hours tuning a dungeon for scaling for say 5% of your player base or create a dungeon or quest line that 50-80% of your players will enjoy. Which one as a business would you think makes sense to pursue?
Show me any solo content that can not be completed by a player with the world quest gear that is available now assuming the player has sufficient skill. There is no solo content that can not be easily beaten by any player in that level of gear easily available to them. Giving them access to gear of Raid level would essentially allow them to have zero challenge on the world content or as they put it âtheir end gameâ. Again not a single person has given one legitimate argument as to why these players have any need for item levels above what is required for the end game content of their choosing, other than âbut we want itâ.
Again not seeing anything that justifies giving raid level gear to non raiders. In fact as already stated giving that gear would only trivialize the content that they feel is the end game they want. They are not a majority of the player base. Sorry if that hurts your feelings but no successful game spends significant resources catering to the minority of its players and many people justifyably feel already too much is handed to players without genuine effort. Show any content in the game, any non dungeon/raid/pvp content that can not be completed already with time and the gear available and ask why should anything more be provided?
No I said that trying to force changes in the scaling of content, trying to force change in the quality of rewards to get equivalent reward for content that is not as challenging is pandering to the minority and is bad for the game community at large. There is not a single article in almost 3000 posts suggesting one legitimate reason why a solo player should be rewarded with gear equivalent to that of someone doing more challenging content like mythic or raiding or pvp. It is all âbut they should so we feel valued for doing only what we wantâ. Again no one is forcing people to play content they donât want, but at the same time just because you do not like that content does not mean you should be rewarded at the same level of those that do partake in what is undeniably more challenging content.
Same can be said of players who do nothing but complain that they are not given access to the best gear when they donât want to do the content. As stated clearly this game is marketted as an MMO. If you are not wanting to participate in multiplayer content that is your choice, but that does not mean the devs or anyone else owe you any special treatment because you make your own choice not to participate.
Show me one example in any of the material or planning for the game released from vanilla forward where it was clearly expressed that solo players and quests was the expected âend gameâ. The end game content has always been dungeons and raids. If you do not like that, that is your choice, but does not mean that you should be catered to just because you decided to play the game.
Show me one item, one zone or quest designed to be able to be completed solo-able that is not able to be completed with the gear currently available in world quests or regular story quest content. Those that are not able to complete that content have either not geared up sufficiently or correctly (best stats to complete that content), or lack sufficient skill on their toon. There is not a single piece of open world content that can not be completed by a class that is played competently with the gear that is available outside of dungeons. So in essence suggesting the reward level is not sufficient is basically saying " I canât complete this based on skill or time so give me a crutch by letting me out gear that so it becomes trivial". You try to point to raid or M+ but there is always another level of difficulty which is why there gear scales so much more. You can take M+ keys to ridiculous heights. Torghast is a challenge mode for fun, it should not give gear. It is a challenge for fun. If you donât want to do it, you dont have to, they have put in sufficient other ways to get the materials. Keys and raid drop gear so you can do the next level of difficulty with the expectation that is your progression. Torghast since it is also expansion specific is not meant as end game content. Again the reward system is designed to provide gear of the level you need to progress. If you are only going to do world quests etc., then you already are getting the gear you need to progress in that, anything else would simply trivialize it. Raiding and keys have the expectation that people are going to only do that level of difficulty till they can move on to the next. There is no next level for solo players doing world quests and such, they have already hit their platue and each new zone usually has gear upgrades sufficient for that new content to allow them to progress in their chosen end game.
Again in over 2000 posts not a single âsoloâ player has given a reasonable argument as to why their character needs more ilvl other than " we want it" or âit will make end content easierâ Which again has no meaning since you are already at the top most difficulty of the chosen end content, if you are not going to go into mythics or raids, you will never need that level of gear, since that level of gear is never needed for questing or world quest/open area content. Very few mythic raid guilds ever get to the level of gear where they can completely ignore mechanics and have too many under geared members with them, while their are some they are the minority and that is why Blizzard does not focus on them.
Try coming up with a valid argument instead of just assuming bias or pretending somehow your minority group of players have some special right to be recognized and catered for by Blizzard, which is what it is when you asking blizzard to specifically design content that only the smallest percentile of the population is wanting to be the end game. You claim it doesnt have to interfere but it does just by diluting the resources already going into the game. Working on stand alone single player content that only a small group is asking for is adapting to service only the entitled few, while those resources can go into creating more challenging content for the larger group of players working through content together. Again no one is forcing you to play with others, but if you want the rewards that come from playing with others, then sorry but that is the only way you should get it and you like everyone else need to judge what is worth doing.
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And in that many posts, not one like you has countered âthen give us harder contentâ with anything but âsolo players donât want challenging contentâ.
This is another argument your kind fall back on, here is the thing, it might not have been the âexpectedâ end game for everyone, but quite a bit became end game for some. In vannilla, there were those that just gathered mats for their guilds, there was the AQ war effort, as well as the move against the scourge. In BC there was IQD, Wrath brought the Argent Tourney, Cata the Molten Front, MoP had IoT/IoG and timeless isle.
Here is the thing, I, or others, might not be able to BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST. This is pert of the problem. There is a range of skill and drive among solo players, yet you, and others keep reducing them to the âwhaaaa it is too hardâ ding-a-lings.
Ahem, you just proved WHY people assume bias. My group? That is not solo only players, my group is those that: raid up to at least heroic, do M+ up to at least 15, AND do solo/world content. Maybe check the the one posting before lumping them in with others, or is that too much effort for you?
In this case, the CONTENT IS ALREADY IN GAME YA DORK. It just need adjusted/fixed up a bit. Like allow Torghast to drop gear and properly scale the difficulty based on ilvl, oh, wait it already does but for some the upper tiers are blocked without raid levell gear (up to heroic, not mythic), so all that allowing torghast to drop gear is gibe the players that want to do it a way to gear up to tackle the higher layers. Iâd enjoy it, and I also raid and run M+, but it would give me that fun when I donât have my guild or a group going.
It only dilutes when something is being made specifically for solo players, if they are making something, like Torghast, anyway, where is the dilution if it drops gear.
Try and keep up, there are those that indeed want gear for non-challenging content, yet there are also those that would be happy with just adjustments to what is already in game or being made.
Also, while the solo players might be a minority, ones like me are likely the true majority, so which would be smarter, cater to ones like me, who would enjoy the solo on top of everything else, and please the solo only players, or treat them like they donât matter and deny both them and likely a good chunk of other players content?
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