End the war on solo gameplay in WoW (Part 1)

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

Lol, you are quite bad at this… y’all started playing a game, knowing good and well what the game entailed… refuse to do what the games wants you to do and doing only simple solo stuff and then feel you have the right to complain when this is 100% on you and your decisions? That just sounds like insanity to me, “give me items for which I have not earned!”

I never decided to play WoW and go against the grain by insisting on playing solo. I simply started playing WoW and enjoyed it, regardless of my solo-minded tendencies.

The early expacs had hundreds of hours’ worth of solo progression through questing. The gear rewards and talent trees were satisfying. The exploration of the world and discovery of how different classes were designed was also very satisfying.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

Again you created this friction yourself by choosing a game made for group content and refusing to do group content. You lack even the most basic amount of logic…

The original expacs had group content for max-level progression, of course, but were clearly designed to allow for solo players to reach max level on their own.

Over time, especially in expansions like Wrath, MoP, Legion, and BfA, we saw more and more improvements made to the playing experience for solo-minded players at max level.

But expansions like WoD, SL, and possibly DF have torn away at this progress. The problem is not WoW itself, but attacks on solo gameplay.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

You earn what you put effort into… and solo content requires little to no effort, it’s like applying for a management position and then getting mad when they tell you that you lack experience, when you have none of it.

No, to continue your comparison, it’s like I already held a part-time assistant manager position for many years now, but the position was removed suddenly because the managers felt threatened; and now I either have to quit all my other personal commitments to force myself to take on a managerial position I am not comfortable with, or I can clean the office restrooms for free.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

Honestly? You aren’t the masses, you are just another minority of the game whining… and yes, I’d rather see the game die than cater to people like yourself… who demand everything change to their will because they don’t want to do the games content.

No, I’m not the masses, but the majority of players were clearly unhappy with Shadowlands endgame, seeing as how they quit soon after reaching max level.

By the way, I am not demanding that everything be changed, only that a solo progression route be restored. Your content will not be affected.

You will get your wish, though, and the game will die if devs keep copying and pasting the Shadowlands model for progression gate-keeping.

[Gwennedl-grobbulus]

@Eleusia-myzrael

The early expacs had hundreds of hours’ worth of solo progression through questing. The gear rewards and talent trees were satisfying. The exploration of the world and discovery of how different classes were designed was also very satisfying.

Quests? What else? World Quests are available…

@Eleusia-myzrael

I never decided to play WoW and go against the grain by insisting on playing solo. I simply started playing WoW and enjoyed it, regardless of my solo-minded tendencies.

Then enjoy the game and accept that you don’t want to do the content and shouldn’t get the gear from the content. I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to understand.

@Eleusia-myzrael

The original expacs had group content for max-level progression, of course, but were clearly designed to allow for solo players to reach max level on their own.

Over time, especially in expansions like Wrath, MoP, Legion, and BfA, we saw more and more improvements made to the playing experience for solo-minded players at max level.

But expansions like WoD, SL, and possibly DF have torn away at this progress. The problem is not WoW itself, but attacks on solo gameplay.

Name those things, since you claim they always existed.

@Eleusia-myzrael

No, to continue your comparison, it’s like I already held a part-time assistant manager position for many years now, but the position was removed suddenly because the managers felt threatened; and now I either have to quit all my other personal commitments to force myself to take on a managerial position I am not comfortable with, or I can clean the office restrooms for free.

You take a clear comparison and make a bad one… you are minimum wage employee wanting to be a manager but aren’t putting the work in to be that.

@Eleusia-myzrael

No, I’m not the masses, but the majority of players were clearly unhappy with Shadowlands endgame, seeing as how they quit soon after reaching max level.

So you’re trying to translate that to the small minority solo players should get gear raid level gear that raiders worked for? Oh… right, no.

@Eleusia-myzrael

By the way, I am not demanding that everything be changed, only that a solo progression route be restored. Your content will not be affected.

You haven’t proved it ever existed.

@Eleusia-myzrael

You will get your wish, though, and the game will die if devs keep copying and pasting the Shadowlands model for progression gate-keeping.

Good, better than them bending the knee to a bunch of a cry-babies who only want handouts. The game will be fine without the small numbers players like you bring.

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

Quests? What else? World Quests are available…

I would keep doing world quests if they offered progression.

But the only new world quests we got in Season 4 were to defeat Fated raid bosses for rep and anima….

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

Then enjoy the game and accept that you don’t want to do the content and shouldn’t get the gear from the content. I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to understand.

I’m not asking for rewards for content that I don’t want to do. I’m asking for (better) rewards from the content that I do want to do.

You keep creating strawmen arguments, and are trying desperately to make me look like an idiot.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

Name those things, since you claim they always existed.

I mentioned improvements made in Wrath, MoP, Legion, and BfA, so here we go:

Wrath:
—Queue-able Heroic Dungeons at max level with progression through Emblem currency and vendor

MoP:
—Max-level progression through Valor from daily quests, queued Heroic dungeons, and LFR; gear rewards equivalent to today’s Heroic iLvl
—For the first time, legendary questline completable through LFR
—World boss gear drops equivalent to today’s Heroic iLvl

Legion:
—World quests introduced to provide gear progression through the open world; world quest rewards updated fully with each new season
—Titanforging allows gear from open world and queued content to occasionally reach Normal, Heroic, or Mythic iLvls (Note: Not saying that this is good, but it certainly allowed solo players to rarely get a huge upgrade)

BfA:
—Conquest can be earned from outdoor PvP events to purchase Heroic iLvl in all slots
—Benthic pearls from outdoor content allow gear to be purchase 5 iLvls below Heroic
—Solo-able Horrific Visions allow gear to be earned 5 iLvls below Mythic

Note: There were various other improvements made for solo players in the above expansions, but I specifically chose systems that were nerfed or removed completely in SL.

The overarching theme behind all the nerfs and removals was to disincentivize soloable, queued, unrated, and untimed content.

It’s not just a claim. It’s numbers and facts that exist in the actual game, if you have it in you to think rationally and objectively.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

You take a clear comparison and make a bad one… you are minimum wage employee wanting to be a manager but aren’t putting the work in to be that.

You forgot the part where I am qualified to be manager, but not interested in the position, and where I used to make far more than minimum wage.

You are trying desperately to belittle me to make yourself seem right or superior.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

So you’re trying to translate that to the small minority solo players should get gear raid level gear that raiders worked for? Oh… right, no.

Solo players are not a minority, and giving them Normal iLvl gear is nothing to clutch your pearls over, considering that Heroic and Mythic iLvls above that over a full season’s worth of 26+ iLvls.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

You haven’t proved it ever existed.

I mentioned some solo progression routes above. They existed in the live game, and if you insist on proof because you were ignorant of them, you are truly irrational.

Outside of that, unrated PvP offered better progression in nearly every single patch than it does in Shadowlands.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

Good, better than them bending the knee to a bunch of a cry-babies who only want handouts. The game will be fine without the small numbers players like you bring.

The Dragonflight launch will see a huge surge in players as always, but the game is far from “fine” right now.

[Frara-blood-furnace]

@Eleusia-myzrael

But expansions like WoD, SL, and possibly DF have torn away at this progress. The problem is not WoW itself, but attacks on solo gameplay.

What do you mean that SL torn away at solo progression?
S1 we got a open world Set from Covenant campaign up to normal raid
S2 had korthia armor up to normal if not heroic ilvl
S3 had cypher system for open world upgrades and cypher gear with special open world effects.
The only Season that is missing something is S4 and it isn’t even a real season.

DF has already lots of stuff like Storm sigil gear that was just recently reduced in amount of sigils needed
That gear has also set boni and effects.

In the end blizz could go the extRa mile to add an upgrade item for 2 weeks worth of farming that upgrades an item up to 2 times. Not sure to what Ilvl…

[Gwennedl-grobbulus]

@Eleusia-myzrael

I would keep doing world quests if they offered progression.

But the only new world quests we got in Season 4 were to defeat Fated raid bosses for rep and anima….

That’s your gripe? Lol.

@Eleusia-myzrael

I’m not asking for rewards for content that I don’t want to do. I’m asking for (better) rewards from the content that I do want to do.

You keep creating strawmen arguments, and are trying desperately to make me look like an idiot.

The problem is the content you want to do requires little to no commitment, ability or anything really… I’m using your words and stop using phrases you don’t understand, like strawman. I’ve stayed on the subject… you are what you stated at the end though.

@Eleusia-myzrael

Wrath:
—Queue-able Heroic Dungeons at max level with progression through Emblem currency and vendor

MoP:
—Max-level progression through Valor from daily quests, queued Heroic dungeons, and LFR; gear rewards equivalent to today’s Heroic iLvl
—For the first time, legendary questline completable through LFR
—World boss gear drops equivalent to today’s Heroic iLvl

Legion:
—World quests introduced to provide gear progression through the open world; world quest rewards updated fully with each new season
—Titanforging allows gear from open world and queued content to occasionally reach Normal, Heroic, or Mythic iLvls (Note: Not saying that this is good, but it certainly allowed solo players to rarely get a huge upgrade)

BfA:
—Conquest can be earned from outdoor PvP events to purchase Heroic iLvl in all slots
—Benthic pearls from outdoor content allow gear to be purchase 5 iLvls below Heroic
—Solo-able Horrific Visions allow gear to be earned 5 iLvls below Mythic

You are naming expansion exclusives… and that legion gear you’re speaking of is sub normal raid ilvl… I’m fine with that, but nothing higher than that. I’m glad they aren’t doing the badge for heroic ilvl gear anymore like in MOP it was a bad thing. Wrath also again sub normal raid ilvl gear… that’s fine.

@Eleusia-myzrael

You forgot the part where I am qualified to be manager, but not interested in the position, and where I used to make far more than minimum wage.

You are trying desperately to belittle me to make yourself seem right or superior.

How are you qualified? You don’t do the content it requires… you’re just a lazy minimum wage employee doing the bare minimum and has no charisma to make it seem otherwise.

I’ve only spoken my opinion and if you see it as belittling you because I think you’re begging for handouts… isn’t my issue and I don’t care.

@Eleusia-myzrael

Solo players are not a minority, and giving them Normal iLvl gear is nothing to clutch your pearls over, considering that Heroic and Mythic iLvls above that over a full season’s worth of 26+ iLvls.

Prove otherwise, you made the claim before about being numerous… provide the stats.

@Eleusia-myzrael

The Dragonflight launch will see a huge surge in players as always, but the game is far from “fine” right now

Only time will tell. You can think whatever you want but at the end of the day… until it happens we’ll not know. Until shadowlands the game will be boring but DF is promising and the game will be fine though without players like yourself constantly whining and crying about not wanting to do content but demanding much stronger gear that is closer to group level gear be accessible for what little you actually do.

[Chases-agamaggan]

Solo players is a very broad community

Some do only dungeons (plus mythic plus)

Some do PVP

Some do open world

Some do mount / achievements hunting

Some do Transmog runs / hunts

Some only RP

Some just runs alts

(Possibly more…)

[Orthis-stormrage]

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

I’ve only spoken my opinion and if you see it as belittling you because I think you’re begging for handouts… isn’t my issue and I don’t care.

Wait are you saying that its impossible to be offensive with opinions?

[Gwennedl-grobbulus]

I mean, it’s his choice to be offended. Lol.

[Orthis-stormrage]

That didn’t answer my question. I’m asking for clarification. Are you saying you don’t care if your opinion offends people? Or is it you don’t think opinions can be offensive?

[Gwennedl-grobbulus]

I didn’t answer your question directly because it was a non-sense question… did I state anything about the impossibility of being offensive?

[Orthis-stormrage]

Ah, you’re the avoidant type when confronted. Good to know.

[Gwennedl-grobbulus]

English is the hardest language to learn I am told… I answered your question, just answer the last thing I said and boom, you got your answer.

[Orthis-stormrage]

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

I mean, it’s his choice to be offended.

This is the answer I belive you are referring to.

@Orthis-stormrage

Wait are you saying that its impossible to be offensive with opinions?

This is the question I asked.

In what world, is your statement anything close to an answer of that question other than what is known as “beating around the bush”, aka avoiding the question.

[Gwennedl-grobbulus]

Well I can tell you’re a

Goodbye and thank you for proving my point about you.

[Orthis-stormrage]

I am asking a legitimate question, one you have refused to answer repeatedly.

The only troll here, is the one refusing to answer a simple question.

[Gwennedl-grobbulus]

I answered the question, you just aren’t intelligent enough to pick it up… anyone with at least 10 brain-cell would have seen the answer.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

did I state anything about the impossibility of being offensive?

Answer that and BOOM… you answered your own question.

[Orthis-stormrage]

Then please point it out, because as I honestly don’t see anything other than avoidance from your responses, like you are continuing to do instead of quoting your said answer, or acknowledging the answer I quoted as the correct one.

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

@Gwennedl-grobbulus

did I state anything about the impossibility of being offensive?

Answer that and BOOM… you answered your own question.

Thats not an answer, that is avoiding the question.

[Gwennedl-grobbulus]

and this is why the ignore feature is great, just wish it wouldn’t even show responses… people this dense make my behind itch.

It’s the answer and you don’t like the fact that you can’t push your own narrative as fact.

[Orthis-stormrage]

I’m not trying to push a narrative

I simply asked if you thought opinions could not be offensive or if you just didn’t care if they were offensive.

You chose to avoid and run away from the question by beating around the bush by stating “WeLl I dIdN’t SaY dAt” and then accuse me for trolling when I’m asking you to clarify, and you refuse to.

[Clayd-moon-guard]

If I had to guess the latter.