OP is most important person in the thread. Unless you enjoy being off topic.
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If the complaint is that we should have a good pair of black tights without having to grind Necrolord renown then yes.
Why? Because black tights will match any top.
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Wrong, but nice try!
This argument is used when raiders/elitists complain about being âforcedâ to do things like Torghast or even world content for their raids. They always come back with "if we want whatever advantage that content provides, we are indeed forced to do it. So elites/raiders donât want to be forced to do content they donât like for advantages in their content, yet are more then willing to âforceâ solo players into content they donât enjoy, possibly for content they have no interest in progressing?
Pure solo players, perhaps, but what about players that willingly dabble in multiple content/all content? See, the âcatering to solo players argumentâ never makes sense to me because, for ones like me, content is content, if I want to do it, I will, if I donât I wonât, so who really gets catered to by adding more solo content, solo players only or those that just like things to do, be it solo, group, hybrid (can do solo but also as a group), etc?
So wanting to progress in Torghast alone is not wanting to improve? So wanting to be able to tackle harder SOLO content, if such was put in, is not wanting to improve? get real, people have their own metrics for improvement, and those may or may not require raiding or M+.
While those players did have an effect, Iâd say those just as equally culpable were raiders/elitists that complained about being 'forced" to do Torgahst for legos and possibly gear (if such was around in the beta)
Mage tower was over tuned at the start, but any more complaints about it are likely coming from ones that want handouts. The fallacy ones like you make is conflating ones like the OP with the ones that complain about anything difficult.
Even I donât deny that there are âsoloâ players that want gear handed to them on a silver platter, but to think that comments like:
Mage tower is the kind of content we like, it might be a bit over tuned, but otherwise perfect
and
Mage tower is too hard, nerf it
Canât come from different people under the same âbannerâ (in this case solo players) just shows how willing your are to ignore individuals due to your perception of the group, possibly based on the ones that make the whole group look bad.
Maybe all that solo players are asking for is that solo play has content they can improve in, be it vision, torghast, thigns liek the Thunder King vault, etc. just like raiders/M+ runners and PvPers.
There will likely be some cross over, like legendaries being earned by doing say the 5 lowest layers of Torghast, but those who focus on that content will be able to push far into it, and get gear that enables them to push farther
Just as an example, using Torghast (as a note, the ilvl mentioned can be just while in Torghast)
Layers 1-5: no gear, just mats for legendaries
Layers 6-10: low level gear, say the same as heroic dungeon to mythic 0, but has an effect that only works in Torghast
Layers 11-15: gear that caps out at normal end raid boss ilvl, again with effects only active in Torghast
layers 16-20: gear that caps at heroic end raid boss ilvl, with the torghat only effects
layers 21+: cosmetics, pets, mounts, and more gear with the cap of the previous layers.
Gear gotten from outside Torghast could still be used to progress in Torghast, and the truly skilled would likely be able to overcome the lack of torghast only effects, especially if their ilvl does not decrease while in Torghast.
As a note, Iâd likely be one trying to do Torghast in my raid/M+ gear as I likely would not be interested in grinding out multiple sets of gear outside the basic prot set and ret set.
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Thatâs because they are two different scenarios.
If a solo player doesnât want to do xyz they do t have too.
If a raider does want to maintain a spot they actually do have too.
Youâre trying to compare apples to oranges.
Solo players donât need to raid to be viable in their content. Raiders do and THAT is the difference.
Which would make them not solo players.
Just because it doesnât make sense to you donât make it untrue.
Solo players have been asking for years for heroic and better loot from world quests. If that happens raiders are forced to do it.
I have yet to see a legitimate solo player asking for torghast to be difficult. Most of them asked for it to be easier.
The issue with torghast was that some classes had it extremely easy (hunter warlock) while others (rogue priest) had major major issues because of how weak the lowered were. Those complaints are different from just torghast bad.
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Different scenarios perhaps, but the argument can boil down to the same "if you want x (gear/rewards/advantage) do y (raid, M+, solo content, etc.)
Outside the initial gear up, getting legos, etc, raiders DONâT need to do solo content to be viable in their content.
Yet they would do solo content, content that is being asked for or suggested.
Even if say, the heroic illvl rewards from solo/world content has to wait till all LFR wings are open? By which point in time, the ones who focus on raids should be well on their way to full normal/heroic/mythic gear in all slots, more so if they do M+?
Possibly because, on the forums, the ones who are mostly happy with what they get or how hard things are are silent. OP and ones like them being an exception, as I have never seen them ask for things to be easier.
Torghast had many issues, but jsut from my perspective:
the nerf to difficulty= due to players complaining it was too hard
the nerf to rewards=due to players complaining about being âforcedâ to do it.
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And thatâs fine. Solo players still cap their progression just like everyone else. If they donât like it they can either stop playing solo or donât.
Raiders are required to grind reps and farm everything else on top of maintaining x requirement of mplus a week in order to do their preferred content.
Solo players have zero toon to complain.
If you do any grouping content by definition you arenât a solo player.
No no and no. Gear is rewarded based on difficulty of the content. The most trivial content in the game should not reward heroic level raid loot ever.
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The OP is hilarious.
Like solo players who were pushing hard solo content would not do so themselves?
If the content can be done solo or in a group, like Torghast, yet they do it solo, are they not by definition, a solo player? More so if they donât do any other group content?
Which is why ideas, like progressing through Torghast, or content like Mage Tower, are suggested. Ideas/suggestions YOU shoot down, because to you âsolo players just want things made easierâ
You are bound and determined to keep solo players down by denying them paths to improve either via content already in game, harder content for them, or a mix of the 2.
The only trolls I see are you and your ilk.
Wait, Snozy? Is your main a Hunter named Scozh? (spelling may be off). Whats the matter, noticed you were being ignored so decided to post on another toon to spread your trash?
There is no hard solo content and the the solo players that would do that donât really exist they are that much of a minority.
No. A solo player in the context we are talking about is someone who refuses to do any group content.
I havenât shot down any ideas. I am saying heroic raiders level gear should definitely not be awarded from current solo content.
Because they are such an extreme minority and they should not be rewarded for refusing to play the game as designed.
Considering Iâm not trolling at all. Just because you donât agree with my points doesnât make me a troll.
I switched mains when I swapped guilds. I always post on my main.
You flatter yourself thinking I care enough about your opinion to post on another toon for that reason. Like I said I always post on my main and all my toons have the name Snoz in them so Iâm not hiding anything.
I do find it hilarious how youâre being super toxic here.
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Donât worry they just make stuff up and donât have any substance.
No, they have some subsance, depending on who it is, but this issue is digging through the swamp to find it.
The way I see most of them is actually âthis is how it was, this is how it should always beâ. Thing is, people grow, people change, who is to say todayâs raider is not tomorrows solo player, or todayâs solo player is not tomorrowâs raider?
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The irony considering youâre the literal definition 
You are the literal definition.
You make up your facts as you go. No substance from you.
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Made up substance! Their version of the game has been dying for over a decade now.
So they are like the old CEOs who are resisting changes, even if their family is working on changes, and tend to take the âonce you are in my position, you can do what you want, but as long as I am in charge, we do things this wayâ.
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Facts and substance you donât agree with doesnât mean they arenât facts.
Let me know if you ever come up with a fact or have anything of substance.
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Agree with this completely.
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