Elite NPC Damage is Way Off (Plausible Evidence)


There is a lot of this going around on forums, reddit and streams:
“It’s easier than I remember.”
“I think it’s easy because this group has good players.”
“It was harder back then because everyone sucked.”
and a more direct version of it:
“I think the damage values are off.”

Edit: The damage values players are taking from elites seems very off. I’ll use Deadmines as one of many possible examples.

EDITED: REMOVED RHAHK’ZOR because the doubt was resolved! Thanks for investigating Kaivax!

Let’s take a look at Skeletal Miners, Undead Excavators, & Defias Overseers.

According to Classicdb,
Skeletal Miner, Undead Excavator, and Defias Overseer melee for ~ 113-135 damage (before armor).

In this stream of a Beta tester doing Deadmines, these mobs were hitting for the same values as non-elite mobs.
(https:// www.youtube. com/watch?v=jsdydXEyDP0&t=12532s)

There have been an increasing number of posts by alarmed people who have noticed that they can pull a lot more mobs and survive far more than they remember.

An argument will surely be made that people’s memories have been corrupted by Private Servers and 15 years of time passing by. This isn’t an invalid statement, and is probably true, but everyone hasn’t suddenly forgotten and everybody isn’t clueless or stupid. There is certainly something off about these numbers not just in The Deadmines, but with all the elite mob damage output that I have noticed from watching streams.

There are other server-dedicated database browsers that support this same information (though with varying actual numbers) but are closer to the aforementioned details than what is currently live on the beta. I didn’t include these, however, because I felt they weren’t as credible as other sources, though, again, they do support the same argument.

I will find out more and give a more detailed table once (if) I can access the beta servers.


keep digging, still 100 days for them to make it perfect


Please contribute any findings you may have! Make sure you anchor it with evidence, please!


hell even normal mobs feel like they are hitting for less then they should. you can tell because the lake cairn murlocs and defias pillagers haven’t built their thrones of bones yet.


I’ll do a more thorough investigation of more NPC’s eventually, but my resources are limited. I truly believe though that they can do an even more fantastic job on this server and I root for them like some people root for their favorite football teams.

I will move/replicate this type of thread in the Classic WoW In Development forums if/when I get into the Beta, too.


^^ This.

But especially elite mobs…


Thank you for looking into this dedpite the many people insistsing that blizz can do no wrong. We all want the game to be as finished as possible for launch.


Good work, keep digging so they can eventually be fixed


These kind of things need to get posted to Development forums -> Classic beta

(Primalmatter) #11

This isn’t evidence though… we are going off of unreliable testimony from sources that even if correct can’t be taken as a absolute because of players having different armor.


There was a patch in classic the nerfed dungeon mob damage in late vanilla. I’m pretty sure it was a small almost hidden then. Trying to find reference.


I’ve tried a bit of private servers, and beta seems considerably easier, which is nice, Classic was never meant to be brutally hard, just engaging and challenging enough to keep you on your toes. Nevertheless, good for you to point it out, maybe elite npcs should hit just a tad higher.


The only actual vanilla deadmines footage I can find is https://youtu.be/Y1_jBM9Jkpk
Its a level 60 ret paladin. Since being higher level doesnt lower damage just the chance of being hit the damage he takes should only be slightly lower on non blocks due to more armor.

(Priapis) #15

Lists his damage as 101-130, not 154+

From 2007, but a lvl 18 gets hit in the first 5 seconds for 87 damage.


found footage of a guy in epics soloing 61 elites with warlock. They were hitting his voidwalker for 280 and him for 350. Sadly all the videos i found of lower level stuff was either from pirate servers or frustratingly had ui disabled so you couldnt see the damage being done. Hopefully they let people test things at higher levels. I hope that if there is a bug where elites do lower damage than they should that it is fixed, the authenticity is a big reason I want classic and dont want to play pirate servers.


The difference in armour between a level 18 warrior and a level 60 paladin is huge. Plus the paladin in the video looks like he’s prot not ret so he’s got massive damage reduction against these lowbie NPC’s. Rhahk’zor was only melee’ing him for about 34-36 per hit which is way less than the ~140-150 damage stated in the wowhead post.

Mob damage is definitely off. There have been so many reports of it and they haven’t come out and said it’s working as intended like they have with certain other things people have reported. They haven’t put it on the “not a bug” list which makes me think they’re looking into it and hopefully will be able to fix it before too long.

(Mini) #18

When in 2007?

BC came out 1/07 I believe and the open world was made easier with the removal of most elites now turned regular mobs,they might of tuned down dungeons as well

Edit: Nevermind that is from BC I can tell from the drop


No the armor differnce is not huge. Armore is a percentage reduction. At 18 you can expect at least a 30% reduction. Even if he was near the cap it would olnt cut the damage in half. Also he says in the description that he is ret so we can expect around a 40% reduction from armor

(Priapis) #20

Dec 2007. I remember elites were tuned into regular mobs but I don’t remember anything about elite damage being changed. That still doesn’t address that the other site I listed describes his damage as being lower than what OP claimed and that values on beta could fit in with armor values.

(Mini) #21

Don’t mobs interact with us the same way we interact with them?

The higher we are the higher their chance to miss which would lead to more glancing blows than?