Elemental in 8.1


(Grumpkin) #562
Didn't Ion just say that if your less mobile, you should be more tanky? I would think if Ele is the turret style caster, then we should have a ton of survivability.

(Qec) #563
10/13/2018 08:18 AMPosted by Grumpkin
Didn't Ion just say that if your less mobile, you should be more tanky? I would think if Ele is the turret style caster, then we should have a ton of survivability.
There you go, using logic ...

Ele was the most fun spec in all of legion, now I haven't touched it since the first hour I played in BfA.

(Sietten) #564
New build.
Nothing for Shaman.
RIP.

(Redbullfly) #565
10/13/2018 01:02 PMPosted by Qec
10/13/2018 08:18 AMPosted by Grumpkin
Didn't Ion just say that if your less mobile, you should be more tanky? I would think if Ele is the turret style caster, then we should have a ton of survivability.
There you go, using logic ...

Ele was the most fun spec in all of legion, now I haven't touched it since the first hour I played in BfA.


It was still pretty bleh. Definitely one of the better iterations imo though. I really mis MoP Elemental Shaman.

(Axön) #566
TL;DR - I keep checking mmo champion several times a week hoping to see a blue post stating what their design goals are for my favorite class and spec, aside from lack of mobility being its weakness. Respectfully, what is my intended, fundamental strength supposed to be as an elemental shaman in the eyes of the dev team? Please?

- an elemental shaman main for almost 14 years

---

For whatever it might be worth, I've been this same elemental shaman since December 2004. I've participated in various "levels of play" over those years, from pvping with folks seeking High Warlord in vanilla, to pushing the current raid content at the end of BC and throughout WotLK, to playing fairly casually and mostly solo during Legion, and lots of gradations in between. I've taken extended breaks from the game from time to time, as well, with increasing frequency as the years go by.

While I love the lore and "class fantasy" and play style (for the most part, there have been a lot of changes over time), shaman, and especially elemental shaman, have often felt like they are overlooked and undertuned. It is frustratingly depressing and completely expected to come into a new expansion feeling shafted to some degree.
Fourteen years is a long time. I'm not trying to come across as making some blanket, patently stupid statement along the lines of "shaman are always terrible". There have been highlights and lowlights. Obviously, I still enjoy the game after all this time enough to post here and continue to play, at least for now.

But it does seem to me that, while all classes have had, and continue to have, their own problems, there's always been a nagging sense that there isn't the passion behind the development of the shaman class that is clearly there for other classes. No one seems to be going "oh man, you know what'd be cool?! if we did x... or if y did this really cool thing... " for shaman the way it seems happens for other classes.

This post may be of limited value, as I'm not providing any hard numbers or factual analysis and instead just giving what are essentially gut reactions, and it's certainly a bit rambly at this point. I simply wanted to put in my two cents from the perspective of a nearly-fourteen-year, single-main elemental shaman.

As such, given that the intended and purposeful limitations of elemental have been clearly stated by the design team, within the greater context of their overall design paradigm of clear class/spec strengths offset with clear weaknesses, and vice versa, it seems perfectly reasonable to expect an equally clear statement of the intended strengths and overall feel they are designing towards.

I have specific thoughts, too, of course, which have been touched on repeatedly throughout this thread already, the two main ones being:
- Echo of the Elements should just be a baseline thing. This is the most important thing in my mind.
- Remove CD on flameshock, or in some way address the frustrating experience of target swapping.

Basically, I know its early in the PTR process, but I share in the concern with other shamans posting here regarding the direction and apparent intent of the current changes. If we could just know what our class is intended to be good at, I think that would be helpful to all parties, as it will certainly improve the quality of feedback and alleviate some player anxiety at the same time.

(Meadamemnon) #567
10/15/2018 02:33 PMPosted by Axön
I have specific thoughts, too, of course, which have been touched on repeatedly throughout this thread already, the two main ones being:
- Echo of the Elements should just be a baseline thing. This is the most important thing in my mind.
- Remove CD on flameshock, or in some way address the frustrating experience of target swapping.


I have a few thoughts myself on improvements.

Nothing ever competes with Echo, it needs to be made baseline i agree. Assuming Echo of Elements is baseline, move Control of Lava in its place. Instead of Control of Lava replacing Lava Surge, keep Lava Surge, but replace Echo of Elements. The reason people dont take this in PvP is because it replaces Lava Surge and we need Lava Surge in PvP especially. Make the damage buff higher than 25% so in exchange for charges of LvB, we get a nuking type of LvB. This will also make Earthen Rage more competitive since its not in the same tier as Echo of Elements.

Switch Icefury and Unlimited power in the talent trees. Unlimited Power is strong but not as a 100 talent. A 100 talent should be game changing, where UP is not really game changing but QoL improvement. That would make something compete with Surge of Power for those who arent a fan of that and dont want to play Pet spec.

With IceFury in the 100 Talent row, buff the damage so its an actual nuke and worth taking. Remove 2 charges of Frost Shock from it, so it is only 2 charges. You can buff each charge as well. The problems with IF currently are two fold, first it doesnt do much damage. Second, no one wants to spend 4 globals casting Frost Shock not building maelstrom when ES is our hardest hitting ability. So make it two charges so we can get back to building maelstrom.

Also, add in some maelstrom to Frost Shock, like 4-6 per use, so we can build maelstrom while kiting.

I'm fine with the cd on Flame Shock, since the duration is buffed to 24 seconds. But we do need some type of dispel protection. Holy pally have passive dispels everytime they heal. We need to be protected from stuff like that, such as instantly resetting cd on Flame Shock and causing an instant Lava Surge proc. This way its a waste to dispel because we can recast it and to prevent healers from forcing us to have to use an extra global so they dispel anyways, an instant Lava Surge proc is generated. This will allow us to instantly nuke as punishment, unless defended by stunning, cc'd, etc.

Also we could use a survivability buff, since we are essentially turrets. Maybe make the ENH PvP talent, Ethereal Form baseline and NOT replacing Astral Shift. You can raise the cd to 1min on it as well for the trade off.

I hope to see some of these, if not all of these implemented. I feel this would really give us some balance back and fit the class fantasy, while making everyone happy. With the 100 talent row IF, SK, and Ascendance you could litterally make your Ele a master of all elements (IF), Lightning based (SK), and Lava based (Ascendance). I believe most people fall into one of those 3 iterations elemental shaman, while still giving us some quality of life improvements as well that fit the intention of the direction of class design.

(Spinachdip) #568
been playing elemental as a main since early wotlk, resto since beta.

this. is. painful.

nothing more to say without spewing negativity.

eote base. flame-s with no cd. some pvp help. more suitability or mobility. everyone is iterating the same thing. has been for ages, nothing touched. these new 'talents' are as close to a dumpster fire as you can get, especially competing with the ones we -must- use now.

why do we do this to ourselves?? it sucks forever being the black sheep of the game.

(Goraxe) #569
Why did we even waste out time writing these post? I think I'm done. They have had long enough to implement some of these changes or at least debate/communicate with us about these changes. Just like Alpha and Beta, you have not changed one bit Blizzard. Good job Blizz, you just lost another sub. 11/1 will be my last day till you fix this.

(Cynalessa) #570
10/12/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Uhdon
Give back gust of wind as we have no mobility (ghost wolf can be removed


yeesh if you ever wonder why they don't want to listen to forums

(Magmir) #571
10/15/2018 09:38 PMPosted by Cynalessa
10/12/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Uhdon
Give back gust of wind as we have no mobility (ghost wolf can be removed


yeesh if you ever wonder why they don't want to listen to forums


Yeah, Blizzard has specifically said that they want elemental to be a low mobility spec. Stop asking for mobility, it's not going to happen.

(Favi) #572
10/15/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Magmir
10/15/2018 09:38 PMPosted by Cynalessa
...

yeesh if you ever wonder why they don't want to listen to forums


Yeah, Blizzard has specifically said that they want elemental to be a low mobility spec. Stop asking for mobility, it's not going to happen.


Gave up on gust a while ago, muscle memory from my Legion keybind persists, so I drop tremor totem by accident every once and a while. I jokingly reminisce about the QA where Ion said people would forget about missing abilities. Knowing it's not going to happen doesn't make it any less depressing.

(Magmir) #573
Compared my single target DPS on the raid dummy, live vs PTR (no buffs/no flask/no food). Doing a little over 1000 more DPS on the PTR. Depending on RNG can go close to 2000 more DPS.

Anyone else tried out the current iteration of changes?

(Axön) #574
10/16/2018 02:16 AMPosted by Magmir
Compared my single target DPS on the raid dummy, live vs PTR (no buffs/no flask/no food). Doing a little over 1000 more DPS on the PTR. Depending on RNG can go close to 2000 more DPS.

Anyone else tried out the current iteration of changes?


Is that utilizing all the new talents?

(Hërn) #575
So Surge of Power now has a 15 second window to use it.

So as I understand it I must do the following for the overload to Lightning Bolt
1. Earth Shock
2. Cast Lightning Bolt to actually proc the overload and this cast doesn't benifit form the proc.
3. Cast Stormkeeper.
4. And now I cast the actual Lightning Bolts that benifit from Surge of Power.

And Durning all of this I get to hope I'm not interfered with in any way or need to move alot.

At least let it go into effect as soon as I Earth Shock and skip having to cast a Lightning Bolt before I have to cast Stormkeeper.

(Hërn) #576
Another thought is on Frost Shock, it needs to generate Maelstrom even a small amount. Maybe 3 Maelstrom?

(Magmir) #577
10/16/2018 07:32 PMPosted by Hërn
So Surge of Power now has a 15 second window to use it.

So as I understand it I must do the following for the overload to Lightning Bolt
1. Earth Shock
2. Cast Lightning Bolt to actually proc the overload and this cast doesn't benifit form the proc.
3. Cast Stormkeeper.
4. And now I cast the actual Lightning Bolts that benifit from Surge of Power.

And Durning all of this I get to hope I'm not interfered with in any way or need to move alot.

At least let it go into effect as soon as I Earth Shock and skip having to cast a Lightning Bolt before I have to cast Stormkeeper.


First cast of lightning bolt after Earth Shock was getting the guaranteed extra overload when I did my testing recently.

(Frexx) #578
I know this is an elemental thread, but lets just take a moment to grieve for the untimely death of resto shaman.

He was a really bad guy, he couldn't even heal that dog that accidentally got into the thornbushes.

Rest in peace

(Hulkamaniacs) #579
10/17/2018 01:59 AMPosted by Frexx
I know this is an elemental thread, but lets just take a moment to grieve for the untimely death of resto shaman.

He was a really bad guy, he couldn't even heal that dog that accidentally got into the thornbushes.

Rest in peace


F

(Superlurker) #580
I do not like that Lightning Bolt hits harder than every other spell other than Earth Shock.

(Hërn) #581
10/17/2018 09:50 AMPosted by Superlurker
I do not like that Lightning Bolt hits harder than every other spell other than Earth Shock.


I want my hard hitting Lava Burst back.