Elemental in 8.1


(Sietten) #542
I found some recording of Elemental Shaman in PvP 8.1

WARNING!
IT'S HIGHLY GRAPHIC!
TRIGGER WARNING!
VERY VIOLENT!


Remove the spaces before the number, I'm actually scared to link this. Might get a vacation.

(Mosbe) #543
No way will the proposed changes make it live before stormkeeper gets nerfed from his current iteration on PTR.

Personally I don't love the changes and continue to hold out hope for more dev dialogue. Specifically hoping to hear what their intentions from elementals strength are since we don't seem to be excelling at anything currently.

LB stopped being fun to cast when cast on the move was removed so the focus on making us more of a lightning based caster is not appealing to me. If it gets buffed anymore we will stop casting lavaburst altogether except for surge procs. I enjoy the class fantasy of being a caster of multiple spell schools weaving spells together.

And does the name Lava Burst need to be changed? It hasn't really been bursty since WOTLK

(Traginas) #544
Ele still feels bad, even for AOE. Melee runs in and bursts for 40k+ on AOE and by the time I have enough maelstrom for earthquake everything is dead.

(Axön) #545
09/29/2018 11:13 PMPosted by Prime
I want to know what blizzard sees as strengths for elemental, because I'm struggling to think of any.

Weak mobility, weak durability, weak single target damage, strong sustained aoe?

I mean if you want elemental to be less mobile, then it should do good damage while standing still right? If you want ele to be less mobile, then it should have more passive and cooldown based defensives right? I don't get it.

Also, why did earthgrab get pruned? The BS reason they pruned gust of wind was "too similar to blink" even though we all know it wasn't. So what was earthgrab totem too similar to? Frost nova? Why do mages get everything?

What are elemental shaman supposed to be good at?

(Rayrey) #546
so is there a bug with call of thunder being on 30? or is that what its supposed to be now? cause with it on 30 it makes the game less enjoyable than if it were on 60.

(Superlurker) #547
The Flame Shock change is... something. It doesn't really fix the issues of add spawns, instead it just causes it to happen less often. This is not the fix I was hoping for.

(Chandy) #548
liquid magma needs a revamp. It was cool 4 years ago but for the non passive spell of its tier is needs more oomph.

I would like something along the lines of an idea that was suggested by someone of beta. perhaps:

volcanic inferno: summons a volcano at the target location that erupts and does X amount of damage and applies flame shock to 3 targets in an area. Your next lava burst hits all targets affected with flame shock for y% dmg. The downside it this spell would miss out on synergy with master of the elements which has now been moved.

Surge of power makes overloads very reliable and it is a welcome change but I would like the developers to visit and idea Binkstein had to give the chance of overload a static number and let mastery affect the damage of overload. I am worried mastery will become a even worse stat come 8.1especially with people picking surge of power.

The new talents feel incredible to use by the way. If the damage of elemental blast and icefury were to be buffed to be heavy hitters to fit their names, elemental would be incredibly fun at the very least.

(Prime) #549
A volcano spell would be pretty cool.

(Nintüra) #550
10/02/2018 11:32 AMPosted by Traginas
Ele still feels bad, even for AOE. Melee runs in and bursts for 40k+ on AOE and by the time I have enough maelstrom for earthquake everything is dead.


I disagree. While yes, our 365 Frost DK was doing 50k on Zul, I was managing as 358 elemental to pull 47k for at least the first 30 seconds of that fight.

(Gumble) #551
Earthquake problem still exists, don't expect to see Ele get good anytime soon as long as it does.

(Myras) #552
Flame Shock having a cooldown at its core is frustrating to work around when swapping to adds. For a class based on AoE as its major strength, we either need Flame Shock to give us a buff to maintain or have no cooldown. The new talent that changes its functionality would work great as-is as it will still save us the global cooldown of having to cast another Flame Shock. Weaving LvB-> FS -> ES -> FS for up to three targets with FS on the would be a cool little gameplay loop on those size packs prior to burst AoEing them down.

What would be even cooler is if with that talent, Earthquake had some interaction with our current Flame Shock targets.

(Vesira) #553
I would like to see the lava surge proc chance increased slightly, but only affect lava burst as if one flame shock were active, and then remove the cd of flame shock.

This would give elemental the ability to multi dot, without it causing their lava burst usage to sky rocket tremendously.

I'd also like to see ele either get spirit walker's grace back and/or some kind of survivability buff. Literally every caster in the game has significantly stronger damage reductions than a 40% cd on a 1.5 minute cd.

My personal recommendation would be to make ele shaman's healing surge's cast time reduced, and make it use less mana and heal more when self cast. Although, that wouldn't help them take a raid hit.

(Kaesebrezen) #554
10/07/2018 04:34 PMPosted by Vesira
I would like to see the lava surge proc chance increased slightly
Look at the frequency of LvB casts, and you could argue that increasing the lava surge procrate is hardly possible.

This would give elemental the ability to multi dot,
A multi-dotable Flame Shock is inherently competing with Chain Lightning in the 3-5 target area, and that's also the area where you still might be able to get LvB casts off.

If you ask how the decision of DoTs vs. AoE Filler vs. high hitting ST abilities works out, and if it's fun, just ask any Shadowpriest how DoTs vs. Mind Sear vs. VB/Mind Blast (which would be very very similar to FS vs. ChL vs. LvB) plays. It's just stupid, and whatever you do, in the end something feels always wrong.

(Hërn) #555
Resto already has a 5% greater chance to get a Lava Surge and does more damage with Lava Burst then Elemental even with an Overload and our higher crit damage so no you can't argue it's hardly possible.

I do agree that multi dotting for Elemental is wrong. I would rather them change Flame Shock to a single target spell with a 25% Lava Surge chance and no cooldown.

(Jonesey) #556
May I join others mentioning the Flame Shock cooldown? For me I will avoid the philosophical end of the discussion and simply say this really makes Shaman feel clunky. Can we get the cooldown removed? Please?

(Orphanchild) #557
These are a few of my wish list items.

1. Mobility is bad - Gust of Wind and Earthgrab totem
Ele mobility is pretty bad post-Legion, PvE and PvP alike. It wouldn't be so bad if we had access to Gust of Wind and earthgrab totem, as talents, in my opinion.

I would like to see both talents come back and replace Spirit Wolf and Static Charge. This would give us a a T45 row of Gust of Wind, Earth Shield, and Earthgrab Totem - all very competitive and situationally strong talents.

2. Surge of Power
I like this new talent except I would really like the Lava Burst modifier to grant an immediate Lava Surge proc. I would like more interaction with Master of the Elements to create a more diversified element weaving play style, and popping an Earth Shock, into casted LB, into another Earth Shock or Stormkeeper lightning bolt, into the lava surge proc, into the second SK +LB, into something else, etc., etc. I think would be really fun and rewarding for maintaining the chain and would give some really nice on demand burst set up. I really dislike the idea of fire ele being some huge dps CD.

3. Totem Mastery
Anyone else feel like this should be baseline? Calling on totems to passively aid you every 2 minutes or when you move far is kind of boring and feels uninspiring as a talent. Even if the baseline version is only 50% as effective as the talent, it feels like it shouldn't be a talent.

4. More damage into Lava Burst - especially PvP
Meatballs should be rewarding. It's the niche Ele spell but doesn't feel that way imo. Lava Surge procs feel good, visually, but they feel like lean beef hitting the target. It's fine if ES remains the nuke, and LB shouldn't hit as hard as that, but it should still be significant imo. This is especially true in PvP, where casting lightning bolt isn't really an option many times. Lava Burst needs a good buff, at least versus players.

(Orphanchild) #558
Also, please consider making frost shock generate a small amount of maelstrom. Make it baseline deal half the damage of lightning bolt and generate 4 maelstrom or so. It doesn't benefit from mastery so it will never be better to spam frost shock over lightning bolt.

But if frost shock is as strong as it is because it's supposed to help during movement, I think having it generate maelstrom instead is healthier overall for Ele in PvP and PvE alike.

(Gugavor) #559
Remove totem mastery or change it, I hate having a 2 minute buff that I have to reapply during raid fights. It just allow me to benefit from the totems regardless of range.

Give back gust of wind as we have no mobility (ghost wolf can be removed and we have no way of instantly avoiding hazards like virtually all other classes)

(Dymitry) #560
Ok, so admittedly I only read about 18/29 pages of this thread.. but it all seems to be a circle jerk of no shock cd, more numbers, various QoL improvements. Apologies if this has been addressed.

Our niche is supposed to be turret casting cleave encounters, basically m+ trash. We benefit heavily from stacking secondary stats. And many (most?) of the complaints in some way boil down to a pacing issue.

Instead of Maelstrom being a spender, could it be a buffbar which fills and powers us up the longer we stay casting. Think Tol Dagor, final encounter where movement is penalized. It could double down on our whole "don't move, throw lightning" thing, and provide an opportunity to give us a secondary stat. Thematically, we're stirring up the storm. mechanically, we're building additional mastery or haste, providing more lightning strikes. It would, theoretically, reward stellar positioning.

I'm wildly inexperienced at balance/game design suggestions, so I'm likely forgetting some catastrophic failure with this system.

Maelstrom would rise and fall quicker. Earthquake and earth shock could be pushed back to cd instead of spender. Perhaps each cast of LB would reduce their cd's. So if you're stationary, and receiving full benefit from maelstrom, you'll be seeing more quakes and nukes. And in the perfect patchwork encounter, we'd become that thunderous embodiment of the storm we're purported to be.

Environments in which we can stutter step would become less of a burden(Vol'Kaal), while longer movements (Cragmaw) would become more punishing. This would also improve the value of Spirit Wolf, giving it a pseudo offensive purpose.

Gust of Wind (since we all love it) could even be reintroduced, but as something of a clean sweep on your maelstrom as payment for your sudden movement. It would be a tool to keep us alive as a proper panic button, but without allowing us the free reign we had before.

More realistically, could we get some under the hood improvements? Separate action bars for our elementals, manually toggling taunt/damage for earth/fire elems respectively is just irritating. Could critters be exempt from Earthie's taunt? And if chain lightning could not jump to passive mobs that haven't been engaged, that'd be awesome. The number of flavor NPCs in places like Motherload and Tol Dagor is a little irritating when paired with wild lightning going where it pleases.

I'll be excited to see any changes, honestly. The 15% bandaid was comforting, but not placating. I look forward to not being disappointed with my spec.

(Orphanchild) #561
10/08/2018 06:42 AMPosted by Hërn
I do agree that multi dotting for Elemental is wrong. I would rather them change Flame Shock to a single target spell with a 25% Lava Surge chance and no cooldown.


That would be interesting. No CD on flame shock but make it so that if you apply it to one target it removes it from the other.