Elemental in 8.1


(Chosenfish) #502
It's pretty obvious the devs haven't a clue what they're doing with shaman. Both ele and resto are significantly undertuned. Shifting numbers around won't fix that.

As ele, I come dead last in M+ with my guild, despite being 10-15 ilvls higher. Hell, sometimes my goal is just to out dps the tank.

For resto, today our MW, druid and I all parsed 96th percentile on Fetid devourer. Druid was 10% more healing, and MW was 20% more than I. That is a numbers issue, plain and simple.

In both cases, the play style is fun (unlike enhance whack-a-mole), and I'm not terrible at the game. But it's super disheartening to see such disparity between my class and others.

This is likely going to cost my sub - I have little interest in any other classes, and without some serious numbers fixing, this one is just not competitive.

(Madalot) #503
Oi, blizzard. how about an answer this time?
Don't talk about how you want to improve communications then leave us hanging.

We've given our feedback already about the problems,
asked what our niche is,
Provided solutions we want.

How about you actually respond? Sick of paying a sub for this !@#$.

(Drooskey) #504
Give us Wrath of Air Totem (baseline) or Stormlash Totem (baseline) or a totem that gives x% of main stat (like the old Strength of Earth Totem but main stat is chosen) for some raid utilization, maybe that will entice people to bring Ele/Enh Shamans. This would give us some of our iconic totems back as well.

Also scrap the Azerite Power for Astral Shift and make it baseline with the ability so it's not so bad.

(Madalot) #505
!@#$ it I give up.
Not bothering to renew my sub.

If 6 months of feedback are going to be ignored and they don't even have the decency to actually talk about it, then I don't see why I should continue to pay for this game.

(Bacontotem) #506
09/18/2018 05:40 PMPosted by Lore


Surge of Power - Earth Shock also enhances your next spell:
  • Flame Shock: The next cast does not incur a cooldown.
  • Lightning Bolt: Your next 3 casts will cause an additional Elemental Overload.
  • Lava Burst: Reduces the cooldown of your Fire (or Storm) Elemental by 6 sec.
  • Frost Shock: Roots the target in place for 6 sec.


I just wanted to clarify on something here. For the Lightning Bolt enhancement of this talent. This sounds like five different outcomes and I want to make sure of this.

1. The next three LB are guaranteed to have a first EO and then an additional EO whenever they are casted.

2. Repeat of "outcome 1" except the enhancement is a timed buff so we have to get those three LB casts off within a time limit.

3. The next three LBs, regardless of when they are casted (no time limit), that do in fact trigger an EO will trigger an additional EO and the enhancement to the spell will not disappear until those three EO triggers have taken place.

4. After casting LB three times, if all three of those LBs fail to trigger a first EO then there won't be an additional EO to follow it up. Then there's no more enhancement to LB as you've now casted three LB and your RNG just wasn't working in your favor.

5. Worst Possible Outcome Repeat of "outcome 4" but there's also a time limit for which we have the enhancement to the spell.

So I need some clarification, is it one of these five designs or is there a different outcome to the design for the enhancement behind this talent?

(Wondersheep) #507
Still need to know what the end goal of Ele design is.

Movement abilities and impactful utility is still fun and also in high demand. If the end goal is for Shaman to be the least mobile class with the least important raid utility then they're well on their way to making the least fun class yet. I'm not a game designer but I'm pretty sure I could make a class that no one wants to play too.

(Brodan) #508
09/26/2018 05:24 PMPosted by Wondersheep
Still need to know what the end goal of Ele design is.

Movement abilities and impactful utility is still fun and also in high demand. If the end goal is for Shaman to be the least mobile class with the least important raid utility then they're well on their way to making the least fun class yet. I'm not a game designer but I'm pretty sure I could make a class that no one wants to play too.


I'm pretty sure even they don't know. They talk a lot about making classes fun and talk a lot about "class fantasy". First of all they gave us fire elemental mount and now they say ele is lightning based lol. About spec being fun - different things are fun to different people. Why do you think I play ele? Because it was fun to me and this design they try to push is not fun as it's not ele.

(Madalot) #509
Just give up guys.
Blizzard have !@#$ed it in multiple areas. As Lores response on azerite proved today, they have this 'we're right and %^-* you, what're you gonna do about it' mentality.

Just reroll or unsub.

(Madalot) #510
I asked again and still got no answer about our niche, or about the changes we've asked for and if they've heard our feedback on the changes they planned.

(Chihao) #511
If they really want elemental to be lightning based, it's going to need way more than just those 2 talents and rebalancing damage to lightning bolt.
There has to be a different core play, core spell, and ascendance changed to be lightning based.
And while at it, tell us elemental and enhancements niche/strengths, because they're overlapping atm in terms of niche, and not clearly defined strengths in either.

(Ashlorn) #512
Same here. I am sick of this lack of communication and support. They had more than a week to release a hotfix like Ion said they would and the only two things they did is nerf us to make sure we would not even try to get out of the !@#$hole we're in and buff specs that were already performing well. This added to the "wait for months for 8.1" to get nothing more than a horrible hotfix is too much.

At this point, they're just openly spitting at our face. While I really enjoyed the start of BFA and could just play an alt, I can't tolerate any longer such an disrespectful attitude from a company I'm paying money to. Therefore, I unsubbed.

I really hope for people who have the courage to stick with shamans (or SP or Fire) that Blizzard will get their !@#$ together real soon.

(Dolrik) #513
The should switch icefury and unlimted power around..........!!!!!!!! that would make every school of magic for ele shaman have a relevent game play loop!!! Especially with the new talents rewarding that game play loop ie Surge of power and call of the thunder witch just add mechanics to the already staifying elemental abilies. Imagine this you have lava surge, fire shock, earthquake, earthshock, lightning bolt, chain lightning, icefury, and frost shock. Thats 2 abilities that interact with eachother in some facet for ice,fire, lightning and earth. Icefury enables a whole new playstlye to be unlocked when having it be paired with surge of power instead of fighting with it on the lvl 90 row . With this there would still being room for an accendence build witch emphasizes big damage windows with primal ele/ storm ele and totem mastery. And a stormkeeper/lighting emphasized build with unlited power, stormkeeper, storm ele, and liquid magma totem( side note the build would be hella fun for aoe) and storm keeper competing with unlitmed power just feels wrong they both kind help with same thing which is encouraging mastery procs. Which then gives us a super satisfying aoe rotation of StK>Lightning Ele>ChL>Eq>Chl>Eq(you wil have maybe like 5 unlited power stack at this point)>LMS (which scales with haste)>spam ChL>Eq combo this would gives us a fun aoe rotation build with the switch. The Switch of Icefury and Unlimted power would be whats best for ele shaman up vote this so the devs see it. (side note they should change the lighting abilitie's school to air and and give windshear the same school that would give shamans in pvp an intresting work around for interupts within the pvp talnets and it would be emphasizing the elemental caster theme. By letting take advatage of one of our biggest strengths in pvp which is that we utilize the most schools out of any caster in pvp)

(Madalot) #514
just face it. They talk about fixing us, opening communication etc but the reality is: Blizzard doesn't want to know. As the Azerite gear fiasco has proven, they stopped listening to feedback about most topics.

6 months of feedback on Ele shaman and they STILL can't tell us where we are supposed to feel good. Their proposed changes are not good enough.

(Gumble) #515
1) Make LvB crit automatically, increase its damage by 40-50%
2) Remove Earthquake
3) Make Chain Lightning allow Earthshock to cleave 3 targets.

That would be a start

(Favilline) #516
Was looking at the builds for Shaman from the WoWhead Guides, since they were recently updated, and the talent spread for each boss seemed interesting.
I'm personally pretty-lazy with how set my talents, and treat them as a personal preference rather than optimizing them to the fights.
99% Echo of the Elements, 95% Totem Mastery, 97% Liquid Magma Totem, 99% Primal Elementalist across all fights. The only dramatic shifts were between Ascendance and Stormkeeper for the single-target and aoe focused fights.

Is that just because people are sheep or is it because the decision spaces is a monoculture?

(Madalot) #517
09/28/2018 07:56 AMPosted by Favilline
Was looking at the builds for Shaman from the WoWhead Guides, since they were recently updated, and the talent spread for each boss seemed interesting.
I'm personally pretty-lazy with how set my talents, and treat them as a personal preference rather than optimizing them to the fights.
99% Echo of the Elements, 95% Totem Mastery, 97% Liquid Magma Totem, 99% Primal Elementalist across all fights. The only dramatic shifts were between Ascendance and Stormkeeper for the single-target and aoe focused fights.

Is that just because people are sheep or is it because the decision spaces is a monoculture?


Mathematically speaking those are just the best builds for consistent damage output.

(Erazhen) #518
Hi, I've made a post about Elemental Shaman in 8.1 throwing out some ideas for new talents/spells. Before I must thank Omarjarn for making this thread because It really sums up most of the issues I have with elemental shaman as well but I'm not so sure about making "Master of the elements" baseline.

Even though he is right about "creating a high-level gameplay for stronger players to min-max", I'm not certain it should be forced upon every Elemental Shaman player, so I would leave it as a talent for now.

Anyways, I would like to hear your thoughts and suggestions on some of those spells:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769517001

(Goraxe) #519
Elemental
Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Earthquake damage increased by 15%.


Seems they are not interested in listening to the vast majority of the opinions here. We asked for Lava Burst which hits like a wet noodle to be buffed, instead and they still insist on buffing Lightning Bolt a long hard cast that is greatly effected by movement. I don't find spending all my time casting long drawn out cast screwing me in any kind of high movement fight as fun.

(Goraxe) #520
09/28/2018 07:56 AMPosted by Favilline
Was looking at the builds for Shaman from the WoWhead Guides, since they were recently updated, and the talent spread for each boss seemed interesting.
I'm personally pretty-lazy with how set my talents, and treat them as a personal preference rather than optimizing them to the fights.
99% Echo of the Elements, 95% Totem Mastery, 97% Liquid Magma Totem, 99% Primal Elementalist across all fights. The only dramatic shifts were between Ascendance and Stormkeeper for the single-target and aoe focused fights.

Is that just because people are sheep or is it because the decision spaces is a monoculture?


EotE is the most fun of the 3 in the first Tier and highest DPS. Totem Mastery is the best talent in that row unless your doing lots of AoE all the time, and I still don't know even then if aftershock can out dps totem mastery. LMT has a shorter CD than Storm Ele, and its better ST damage, so you get decent AoE and better ST with LMT. Primal Ele is by far the best talent in that row for DPS, even though it requires almost zero thought or decision making compared to the harder Icefury.

(Hërn) #521
Not only do they need to fix our base damage but I'm fed up with the lack of survivability. Fine you want me to have to stand still and face tank everything and every melee at least make it so I'm not a free and fast kill.

And its past time to remove the requirement for Flame Shock so that Lava Burst can crit.