Elemental in 8.1


(Chihao) #482
Did a raid boss as elemental.
Lightning bolt being 4% of the damage hmm..
Yeah a 40% buff to it isn't going to do anything here, and revolving our gameplay around it won't do it any justice either.
Please reconsider this change, its going to be more disastrous than before.

(Goraxe) #483
...

What's retarded is you thinking a one button spam rotation should be on par with an old school Feral druid rotation or Dragon Soul Arms warrior rotation.

I guess you only listen to yourself then, because what I said is an extremely popular opinion. That opinion is, "The harder the rotation the better the reward". Now perhaps you should go re-read what I said, because I never said Primal Elementalist should be removed. I know you're not an English speaker, but you keep accusing me of something I did not say. You even quoted the guy that said it and that fellow was not me. So stop it. I said the level 90 talents should be balanced. That means all 3 should be viable choices.

...

See ^^ I made it bold so you can read it.

Active talents should always be higher DPS, and I did not say higher by leaps and bounds. If you are playing a total 7 talent passive talent tree and I am playing a fully 7 active talent tree you better believe I should have around 10% higher damage. Not 10% from one talent but all of 7 of them, because each one should be a percent or two higher depending on how hard it is to pull off. For example Rune of Power is a much harder talent to use than Incanter's Flow for mages, so yes, it should obviously produce the higher dps, but on Live right now it does not. The only time a passive talent should be possibly better is when it introduces a mechanic to the spec that is passive but requires that person to make a lot of decisions, like old Combat rogues Main Gauche.

I think it is very much reasonable that Icefury produces 1% to 2% higher dps than Primal Elementalist. Is much harder to use since you cast it every 30 seconds and it introduces a new rotation instead of every 2.5 min ele that auto attacks and you can use meteor 1 time.


Then be clearer. I'm not native English speaker but what languages besides English do you speak? None...

I can quote you

"remove Primal Elementalist as a talent" and I was talking about it.

I understand English, don't worry. I even work with native English speaking people. The problem was I missunderstood your intention.


A real quote please, or link the post number. Because the guy that said that was to post above my own.

(Goraxe) #484
09/22/2018 03:29 AMPosted by Redbullfly
Yup, I'd love to see Ele speed up some. Keeping the current changes, but:

1. Buffing Lava Burst
2. Making Echo baseline
3. Speeding up our AoE somehow, even perhaps reducing EQ cost and damage.
4. And removing Primal Ele as a talent

...would be a welcomed change to the spec.
I'd honestly be satisfied at this point.


See that name Brodan, it's not mine.

(Goraxe) #485
09/23/2018 10:47 PMPosted by Liljessie
Just to disagree with the previous poster. No, active talents should not always net more dps in all situations. They should provide advantages and uses for certain situations (burst aoe, faster rotation, burst single target, etc) Just cause a talent is passive, should in no way mean less dps.

On to the general topic. I don't think most people hate ele rotation, aside from flame shock cd. The big issue is its undertuned. Ele needs a damage buff to bring it in line with basically anything at all. Its damage is so sub par in comparison to basically every other dps. On top of that they lack mobility which only makes their low damage go even lower and feel even worse on the vast majority of fights these days.

Blizzard buff elemental's damage, don't just move it around (earth shock, lightning bolt), and not some 5% flat increase either. A serious buff that at least makes you feel like you aren't wasting your time playing as dps.


You're going to have to do better than that and bring a logical reason why a talent like Earthen Rage which requires no thought, no decision-making, no planning, no button-pushing, etc should have equal DPS to any active DPS talent?

Even in the situation where there is no DPS to be gained, such as mitigation talents or movement talents, the active talents should provide the better benefit if used correctly.

(Redbullfly) #486
09/24/2018 05:34 AMPosted by Goraxe
09/22/2018 03:29 AMPosted by Redbullfly
Yup, I'd love to see Ele speed up some. Keeping the current changes, but:

1. Buffing Lava Burst
2. Making Echo baseline
3. Speeding up our AoE somehow, even perhaps reducing EQ cost and damage.
4. And removing Primal Ele as a talent

...would be a welcomed change to the spec.
I'd honestly be satisfied at this point.


See that name Brodan, it's not mine.


Hey that's me lol

(Mafic) #487
09/22/2018 06:54 PMPosted by Zugglife
these changes are not enough.. its not what any of us asked for. makes one wonder wtf they look at when they make these changes


They don't have enough resources to fix WoW and classes/specs. BFA is in maintenance mode.

(Brodan) #488
09/24/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Redbullfly
09/24/2018 05:34 AMPosted by Goraxe
...

See that name Brodan, it's not mine.


Hey that's me lol


Sorry Goreaxe then

(Brodan) #489
09/24/2018 04:46 AMPosted by Chihao
Did a raid boss as elemental.
Lightning bolt being 4% of the damage hmm..
Yeah a 40% buff to it isn't going to do anything here, and revolving our gameplay around it won't do it any justice either.
Please reconsider this change, its going to be more disastrous than before.


40% of nothing is still nothing. I don't like these changes at all and I consider rerolling shaman as these ele changes are just awful and clunky. Lavaburst was our main source of damage for so many expansions they even gave us Fire Elemental as spec variation of our class mount and now suddenly they decided that Ele should be Lightning based spec...

I'm really disappointed...

I tried this "rework" on beta and I'm not satisfied at all. Maybe in PvE environment when you will be able to stand in 1 place and just hardcast 90% of the time it will be an improvement but in PvP it's not going to work. What's more what's the difference between 1 m. CD Stormkeeper gives us instant Lightning Bolt burst and big Earth Shocks. Can't we just reduce Earth Shock damage and buff the rest of our spells? Just make Lava burst crit even without Flame Shock and this spec is fixed. It will be fun and viable as always. Instead Blizzard makes a stupid rework that noone likes and just forces us to play clunky Lightning Bolt hardcasting spec.

(Wartide) #490
All I wanna know, and I believe this should be our top priority, what is blizzards vision to where elemental shamans should excel?

This has not been answered yet, blizzard keeps saying they want specs to have a clear niche and a clear disadvantage, they have said being immobile is elementals clear disadvantage, but we still need to hear what is our niche, I don´t believe we can move forward without knowing this.

At this point, and I know this might sound mean, I don´t know if even blizzard knows where we should excel, otherwise they would have answered this already.

(Vhye) #491
When looking at the whole sum of changes made to Elemental Shaman this expansion, we feel that some of the passive talent choices weren’t holding up well, and had no interaction with how you played the game at all. We’re adding some experimental new talents that should allow some additional decision making on how you choose to use some of your abilities.


The new changes don't do much, honestly. I changed mains after 10+ years as a shaman, and it killed me to do so, but the DPS specs are just..... so...... bad.

My feedback from beta on Elemental still stands:

1: Echo and EB on the same talent row feels really lame; EB doesn't compete with Echo because EB doesn't generate maelstrom.

2: The fun and pacing of Elemental in Legion came from the synergy between variable-maelstrom Earth Shocks and procs for Ascendance with the Smoldering Heart and the Aftershock talent (aka the Gambling build). I'm not asking for that synergy back, but the "feel" of that could come from the Aftershock talent, except... with Earth Shock cost being static, "do I get a second Earth Shock" and that's it.

3: Elemental Shaman are, as much as any other class, hampered by in-combat movement. This makes them entirely unsuitable for any current content - Uldir is full of movement mechanics, as is M+. In Legion, we had tools to deal with movement. In BfA, most of those tools were lost: Stormkeeper (or lose Ascendance), variable MS ES/FS, lost of Gust of Wind - finally Ghost Wolf as a last resort. Now all we have is Stormkeeper (if taken) and Ghost Wolf; you have to realize that static, unmovable specs are TERRIBLE to play in this game with the raid/dungeon mechanics we have now. Ele can remain a stationary spec, but it needs more tools to deal with movement.

I think the spec plays better with variable-MS ES/FS, and would be mechanically greatly improved with the return of one of the movement-management abilities as a baseline ability - Gust of Wind or Stormkeeper.

(Swigneous) #492
Devs: Can we compromise on Flame Shock and at least have it reset (if still on CD) when the mob dies to add some more dimension to the rotation? Or even better--have EotE add an extra charge to it as well?

(Ascellion) #493
*sigh* After reading blue's post, I guess its time for me to park my elem shaman and go level a one button masher :(

(Borgini) #494
1. Revising talents is fine, but please consider buffing the more active talents like Elemental Blast so that they actually can see use. If you don't like them, replace them with something else then. With the more easier to play talents, ele becomes pretty bland. Remember that Elemental Blast, only an example here cause I'd love to see Icefury used too, is an elemental lockout which is dangerous so please don't water down the spell for PvP template tuning just to toss it into the bin.

2. Flame Shock reset by Earth Shock shows that you guys know its irritated the playerbase playing with 6 sec CD flame shock again. So, idea, if removing the cooldown is a hard "no", then at least make it reduce with haste to match and follow a 4 GCD cycle in multi-dotting periods, smoothly.

3. You address Ele as the lightning based caster. Great. Problem though. Chain Lightning is now baseline much lower damage than Lightning Bolt. Thus you don't need to nerf its overload chances (Chain Lightning overloads 20% of normal chance per target up to 5). Make Chain Lightning full overload chance on all targets. So to match your vision of Elemental as lightning caster, you need to look at this spell too *please*.

4. Less related to the changes but reminder. Lava Burst is our second filler now. You guys made its active time mucho higher than in the past, that it has become just a second filler. If you're buffing Lightning Bolt, expect to buff Lava Burst and Chain Lightning.

Next, if we are lightning caster, why ele casting graphics for lightning more outdated and derpy looking than Vehicles, World Quest items / extra action abilities that are lightning-based, NPCs like wind serpents, etc? Can we get an update to these? And I don't mean just a copy/paste from the previously mentioned things. I mean more like, make sure it doesn't make an irritating sound since it's our filler, tone it down a bit, etc. But something. It makes us look really out of place casting this rigid lightning bolt and old chain lightning.

(Smoph) #495
I've got two hours left on my sub so I'll leave with this.

This is my first expansion maining shaman. I played a Frost/UH DK in Legion and before that I played a Ret Paladin since the beginning of time. I never used to care about numbers, pre legion Ret was the reason I enjoyed the game.. but my classes were typically in the middle-upper middle of the pack (minus DK's in EN)

I went back and checked the logs as far as it would go and shamans were never higher than direct middle of the pack. There was no ebb and flow that most classes typically have. Every class since MoP has had some time at the top minus Shaman (and oddly DH, but they haven't been around long)

I didn't even realize that shamans have never had a shot at being a higher quality class in numbers. It might seem like a lot to ask for but I think it's fair that at least for a single raid tier post-vanilla every class should have had it's time.

Just based on historical data and the current situation of development I'm afraid I will completely abandon this character and likely the game altogether due to the alt building situation being the same exact grind.

If I can pass along some sort of suggestion it is that the development team needs to actually be specific and respond to the serious issues. Be transparent with your intentions. It's clear you don't want shamans filling a specific niche but explain why. Clear the air on why shamans can't have mobility or damage and explain how that fits the class fantasy. It's very obvious you could care less about the class, but at least give a damn about the players.

(Madalot) #496
back to being ignored I guess

(Hërn) #497
So at this point all of the changes on the ptr fail to address any actual issues raised.

(Iwanttopost) #498
Nice shaman buffs we got with the hotfixes, guess Ion is a liar when he announced that there will be number adjustments to help us out in the immediate future... what a joke

(Brodan) #499
09/25/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Iwanttopost
Nice shaman buffs we got with the hotfixes, guess Ion is a liar when he announced that there will be number adjustments to help us out in the immediate future... what a joke


We don't have any popular streamer in US playing ele. If we had Sodapoppin we'd be buffed 1000x times like ferals.

(Chihao) #500
If a streamer was owning as a shaman, we're more likely to get nerfed instead..

(Allodar) #501
Has there been any indication as to how much Lightning is being buffed?