Elemental in 8.1


(Noxtrius) #21
I'm just so scared they are barely going to do anything, really want more baseline abilities but it's always run counter for their formula for the past few years.

Still think legion had one of the most fun playstyles, really makes me want storm bringer baseline.

(Atatuma) #22
Historically speaking, Blizzard doesn't care about Shaman or the players who play them. You can look at posts from Ion from 3 or 4 years ago where he said basically the same exact things as in his AMA. The man's word is not to be believed.

(Humasha) #23
How to avoid buffing a class for an entire expansion by Blizzard..... First destroy it as the end of an expac under the pretext of game changes (aka artifact weapon retiring) and then watch the community go in arms(justifiably so) for months while you string them along (8.1.....) and then just revert your failed decisions bringing it where it was before and voila! Blizzard style!

(Hroth) #24
Something that I don't think I've ever seen suggested is making our flame shock always generate maelstrom instead of tying it to our fire elemental cd. I think this would help smooth things out a lot.

(Goraxe) #25
Many good suggestions here so far. I would like to bring what I see as issues to the table.

Flame Shock - Please remove this spell and just make Lava Burst 100% crit, or up the damage on Lava Burst. Flame Shock has become a hindrance. It doesn't last that long and it has a 6 second CD. I don't know how many times I killed a target and had no Flame Shock to cast and I am sitting on 2 charges of Lava Burst waiting for 3 - 4 seconds to cast LvB again. It just doesn't mesh well and you fall into a trap of either having to hold back Flame Shock for another mob or cast it and be stuck on CD. Either one means you're losing DPS.

Fire Elemental - By far we are most reliant on Fire Elemental. When it's out we race to the top of the chart and then fall quickly as soon as it's done. I don't want to be a pet class, I want to be master of the elements. Pet should be a minor to modest dps gain, not sky high core of our dps.

Ice Fury - I would really like to see a viable build here that we can use in both PvE and PvP. What does Ice fury have synergy with? Pretty much nothing. Master of the Elements and Echo of the Elements should have direct synergy with Ice Fury, but it doesn't. There is pretty much no way unless you have massively good RNG for you to cast 4 MotE buffed Frost Shocks in an Ice fury rotation. The GCD is so much that the only way for you to cast 4 is with RNG lava surge procs. Ice Fury is the harder rotation, yet it yields the lowest DPS.

Earth and Fire Elemental's pet bars - The two need separate pet bars, right now they are connected to one another. If you turn off "Angered Earth", the Earth Ele taunt, "Fire Blast" the Fire Ele main attack will also be turned off. One should not affect the other. They should be two different bars.

RNG - Way to much balance relys on RNG, Lava Burst can't hit hard because of RNG, maelstrom generation is super low due to RNG, Earth Shock can reset multiple times and crush someone due only to RNG . So we have a feast or famine game play.

Earth Shock - Way to much of our DPS is reliant on this single spell that hits like a massive truck after a long maelstrom build up. It takes to long to build up then if you're super RNG lucky you hit things so hard the rest of your spells must be kept low damage.

Master of nothing - Why was gust of wind removed because it invaded Mage domain but Mages get to keep Time Warp a core feature of Shamans (Blood Lust) since the release of the game? We have a lot of utility, but those utilities are 2nd rate to other classes. Only people that die to fear is those who don't do mechanics correctly. Self Rez, What good is it if we don't die and do the mechanics properly? To top that off it has a VERY long recharge. Off healing - Who cares about off healing? No one, they don't even notice that we off healed, all they noticed is that our DPS was low, they don't care that it's low because we were off healing. Sustained AoE, we use to have this as our niche, but that niche is hardly ever needed, and now there are many other classes that do it better. I am happy to see this niche go, but it would be nice if we had something else to bring to the table.

Movement - I am really not all that upset about movement loss, but I am upset about the hypocrisy for the reason ours was removed. The the problem is that other classes have a TON of movement, and they also have shorter cast times and can do their full rotation with pretty much very to no loss in dps, while sporting our once class specific class buffs like Blood Lust. Our cast times are far to long and we are hurt the worst out of all casters in high movement fights but even if standing still and never moving will not top the caster charts. It's a real slap in the face to hamstring our movement due to encroaching on other classes, while they can encroach on our class all day long with no losses.

(Huulan) #26
So something that hasn't been touched on much is our pets. These need to do less damage and that damage needs to be put into the shaman. I, and other ele shamans, do amazing dps while fire ele is up and when it isn't I don't and damage suffers so so much. I guess its our design to have very impactful cooldowns, but the current state is absurd.

To see this just look at M+...so many elemental shamans struggle to even keep up with the tank if our cooldowns are on cooldown and we have to rely on our actual class to do damage. It is also in raids, dungeons, PvP, pretty much everything.

I agree FS needs to change but as I said this is something that hasn't come up too often and it really should.

(Atatuma) #27
HEY CLASS DEVELOPMENT TEAM,
This is where you jump in with a blue post and tell us what you are thinking our strength can be and your goals for the class are. You know, like give us a guideline to work from for ideas, you might even call it a BLUEprint of the class. You should be embarrassed by your silence.

(Dragonspeakr) #28
Hopefully when the weekend ends, we'll get some sot of word.

Hoping to hear some news about an upcoming hotfix to help bandaid things until they can do something more overhaul-ish in a patch.

(Boujeeaf) #29
Main things I would love to see for elemental

Make Primal Elementalist permanent for us.
For anyone not using it, please try it and see the difference in gameplay.
Having that earth elemental always there would be great for survivability,
1min cd 40% dmg reduc is amazing and having a 4sec stun can really help us trying to escape melee.

Lower the cooldown on Flame Shock

Gust of wind - bring it back.

Lightning bolt - please do something about this spell. Why does it hit so low? Why does it feel so boring to cast it? Bring back running while casting and it would probably be good again.

(Dookerooker) #30
Frost shock generating maelstrom would help a lot on movement and in pvp.

(Smoph) #31
If Ele is definitely intended to be a slower ramping/sustained dps type of caster and not have any huge clumps of initial burst I would feel safe increasing spell maelstome generation by 50%. 12 for LB 18 for LvB so it wouldnt take 8 casts to pull off a single EQ/ES

(Grimmbeard) #32
I would argue that with more maelstrom we have, the shorter our cast time gets. Mages have timewarp, so give us this.

(Quezacotll) #33
A few things I'd like to see come our way with my reasoning.

1. Adjustment to AOE. Meaningful AOE damage requires Earthquakes. Without being able to place EQ, CL seems to really just fill the role of being a maelstrom generator. For me, seeing damage shifted into CL from EQ (or just into CL period) to help smooth AOE damage without the heavy reliance on EQ damage would help relieve how punishingly limited our AOE potential is without the ability to Earthquake.

2. In-line with above, Stormkeeper in its current iteration feels unexciting compared to the Legion version. Echoing a similar sentiment as above, while the Overload on all targets does generate some extra damage, it lacks the burst AOE it had in Legion. Currently, it just seems like a 1-min CD for a full maelstrom bar - if there are enough targets. Without enough targets, it doesn't generate enough maelstrom for EQ. Would like to see the damage empowerment to the Stormkeeper-buffed casts return to the version we have.

3. Echo of the Elements baseline. There's been enough reasoning and explanation to warrant a "nuff said" here.

4. Flame Shock - something's gotta give. LvB requiring it for its full damage vs its 6-sec CD makes for an awkward situation when multidotting or switching to priority targets. Personally, I liked the Legion-version of Maelstrom building and spending than the current iteration we have now. This includes FS with no CD, the cost for EQ being 50 instead of 60, and ES spending all maelstrom than the flat 60. In that model, we could refresh dots during movement, or use ES/Lava Surge procs during movement to put out some damage that was meaningful. Currently, beyond a Surge Proc, and unless we're above 60maelstrom, we're really just casting Frost Shock to fill, which is pretty weak damage.

I think that's all I have for now.

(Meadamemnon) #34
09/17/2018 05:13 AMPosted by Boujeeaf
Main things I would love to see for elemental

Make Primal Elementalist permanent for us.
For anyone not using it, please try it and see the difference in gameplay.
Having that earth elemental always there would be great for survivability,
1min cd 40% dmg reduc is amazing and having a 4sec stun can really help us trying to escape melee.

Lower the cooldown on Flame Shock

Gust of wind - bring it back.

Lightning bolt - please do something about this spell. Why does it hit so low? Why does it feel so boring to cast it? Bring back running while casting and it would probably be good again.


Never make Primal Elementalist Baseline. If I wanted to play a pet class, I would play a pet class. Get pet class out of my Elemental spec.

(Mcjaggernaut) #35
I disagree with all of the things.

Thank you.

*bows deeply*

(Babmurley) #36
I feel like ele should have slightly faster cast times for single target abilities. Without some luck with haste drops, it takes 2 seconds to cast any ability that actually generates maelstrom / deals any meaningful damage. In a lot of situations it literally makes elemental obsolete, because you can't cast anything before mobs actually die. This also hurts ele in situations that require a lot of repositioning (i.e. Vol'Kaal in Atal'Dazar / blobs before 2nd boss in King's Rest). DPS drastically suffers in those types of situations, and there's really no way around it besides spamming Frost Shock. Single target also almost solely relies on luck with Lava Burst procs. It takes forever to generate enough maelstrom to cast Earth Shock because every ability takes 2 seconds to cast, and for only 8 maelstrom per Lightning Bolt.

I can dish out a decent 16-20k dps single-target with all my cd's popped (ascendance, fire elemental, racials, trinkets, and lust) for about 15-20 seconds, then I'm trapped doing maybe 8 or 9k for the rest of an encounter at ilvl 358. Feels bad when I see less geared arcane mages / rogues pulling 14-18k consistently in every situation. Besides heavy aoe situations, I feel next to useless half the time, and only wish I decided to roll with something else, which is a shame because I love elemental's play style.

(Kegstand) #37
News for ele in 8.1 : Wait till 8.2

(Wait for it...)

(Thunderaan) #38
Make fire elemental a permanent pet, and allow lightning bolt to be cast while moving again.

All problems solved.

(Omajarn) #39
09/18/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Thunderaan
Make fire elemental a permanent pet, and allow lightning bolt to be cast while moving again.
I mean this sincerely: what is it that ele has over a hunter if you are asking for this? If mobility and a permanent pet are what you are looking for, hunter already has that.

(Noxtrius) #40
09/18/2018 06:50 AMPosted by Omajarn
09/18/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Thunderaan
Make fire elemental a permanent pet, and allow lightning bolt to be cast while moving again.


I mean this sincerely: what is it that ele has over a hunter if you are asking for this? If mobility and a permanent pet are what you are looking for, hunter already has that.
people want elemental powers and to have an elemental minion? It's also in lore.

And just because a class has a feature another class wants doesn't mean it's kind to recommend another class, obviously hunter doesnt have the same appeal of a shaman.