Dwarf Lord doesn't know what he's talking about

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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I would say it is a jump to claim my motivation seeing as they def are not that.

What reward am I after playing a bis geared paladin that was basically bis even before tbc?

I am playing because I enjoy the game and time I spend with people in it. That doesn’t mean I would play if it meant carrying a bunch of people who refuse to help themselves. SoD banned gdkps forcing gamers into that position and thus they all quit. Nobody wants to be forced into the bad loot systems that are default in wow.

The only decent one is LC and that’s during progression. But progression was done 4 years ago.

I’ve been running them on/off for 4+ years now. I don’t think much will change. There’s no faster way to get gold for pvp consumes, and I pvp a lot and pvping without consumes in vanilla is very noob and grief to your team.

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Original post quoated for ez reference. My comment is bolded

Dwarf Lord continually claims that upon reaching Sixty as a fresh toon on Whitemane, you can just jump into raids, no pre raid bis needed.

This is wrong for 3 reasons:

1. Dwarf Lord himself has a lot of connections within the server’s community, on both Horde and Alliance side. As a fresh Sixty, he can draw upon these connections very easily to get into raids, even while under-geared.
2. Dwarf Lord says that GDKPs can be used to get geared up very quickly, but this is also wrong for another reason, chiefly because if you’re a fresh sixty who’s new to era, you get classed as a ‘buyer’, and thus arn’t entitled to a full cut of the pot.

I’ve personally been told this by many different people running GDKPs in Whitemane Era, and it’s almost always the same story everywhere I go: I’m undergeared, so I’m not entitled to a full cut.

Due to reason number one listed above, Dwarf Lord can easily bypass this hard limit and get into GDKPs as a full raider, fully entitled to a cut of the pot.

Because ‘buyers’ arn’t entitled to a full cut of the pot, they don’t make enough gold from GDKPs to justify joining GDKPs as a method of gold making, and thus tend to be softlocked out of the GDKP community, since you basically need gold to get anywhere in the GDKP community.

3. If you’re locked out of GDKPs, the only way for you to progress is by joining a progression guild… which requires pre raid bis, since most progression guilds are composed of fresh sixties trying to gear up.

As Dwarf Lord fully supports GDKPs, he doesn’t join Progression guilds, as he relies on GDKPs to get geared up.

For this reason, I suggest you take everything Dwarf Lord says with a grain of salt.

Warbro doesn’t know what hes talking about

War Bro continually claims that upon reaching sixty as a fresh toon on Whitemane, you simply CANNOT jump into raids, and you MUST get full pre raid bis! Including rank 14 gear!

This is for 3 reasons:

1. War Bro himself has no connections and did not even join a guild
**2. War Bro tried to use GDKPs to gear up quickly but had no gold and when he opened his profession pane his herbalism was 67/75 **

----

OK ill stop memeing but its too much fun. Lets break your comment down a bit because you are wrong on several accounts.

This is correct, no pre-raid bis needed. Sure you can grind out some pieces, healers will really benefit from robes of the exalted for example. Warriors can pump out AV exalted on the bonus weekend and get a great weapon and ring. Or just use some of the low level farming routes I have explain in my videos and by the time you are lvl 60 I could easily see you having 1-2k gold. You can pick up some decently prices BOEs maybe, or run a few dungeons.

If you want to cherry pick things I have said by all means, go for it.

Do I have a lot of connections on the server? Some, but probably not the level of connections you are fantasising about.

If you want to participate in a GDKP I would not attend a raid that is going to not give you a full cut. I personally host some GDKPs sometimes a new player on the server just arrived from hardcore, with no gold to their name. In one instance they were up front with me when joining a molten core, I said hmmm ok you cant afford any gear. Tell you what, any hunter gear not bought ill give to you for free in lieu of your cut, and if nothing drops you get a cut. 4 hunter items dropped for him, worth 4-5x what the cut would be, he got them all, no cut. He was happy. He DM me the next week saying thanks for all of the help and gear man. I joined a guild and have a raid spot!

**Why join some scammy shady GDKP? **

What I am about to tell you is going to shock you Warbro. You can earn gold OUTSIDE of GDKP raids. You can farm ore, herbs, elemental water, earth, etc. You can buy a cheap libram, turn it into an arcanum and sell it to some lazy rich person for 4x the profit. There are so many lucrative gold farms in the game. And if you really want to gear from GDKP you can farm 200-500 gold an hour, and get tons of items for min bid prices.

Here is my favourite line of this entire post

“As Dwarf Lord fully supports GDKPs, he doesn’t join Progression guilds, as he relies on GDKPs to get geared up.”

I literally joined a progression guild recently, who was struggling in BWL. And now we are 15/15 naxx.

I fully support GDKP? If GDKP was banned on era I wouldnt bat an eye, I would keep raiding

I rely on GDKP to gear up? 90% of my gear on all of my character has come from SR raids, DKP, LC, etc.

Because the OP does not seem to know much about me, I suggest you take everything that War Bro says with a grain of salt

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dont be foolish! there is ONLY GDKP on whitemane. Mark my words!!! Any non GDKP raid is squashed by the GDKP mafia!

End Sarcasm

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It would appear that SoD has over twice the raiding population that Era does, so clearly they didn’t all quit.

Instead of buying them, you could farm them yourself.

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I would rather quit than farm gold in open world :stuck_out_tongue: (or farm herbs for consumes)

I enjoy it on a fresh server, but these days on Era I login to play pvp at high level and to do optimized raids. The game can grow and fill niches. Not all parts of the game should be forced on the players all the time, if they are able to create pathways (GDKPs) that improve their desired experience.

I think the biggest question is whether GDKPs are harming newer players relative to them being banned. And I would posit that banning GDKPs would make the overall experience worse for all players.

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Yea I actually meant farming the materials for your consumables yourself. Why would you rather quit than do this?

You could ask this same question about the impact of microtransactions and monetization on the modern gaming market. I suspect you’d get similarly varied opinions, but at least as far as my own is concerned, I think that microtransaction heavy gaming ultimately harms the players in the long run, as does GDKP. Money shifts the motivations.

I’ve mostly already described why I believe this, but I might have more to say depending on how you answer the first part.

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Because I play to pvp. If to do so at the level I want required 5-20 hours of non-pvp farming playtime per week. I have zero desires to spend my time doing that, nor do I even have it. I will play dota or another game.

If there was a fresh server I would have a different answer but we are talking about Era servers in which people have had 5+ years to build their toons. Adding artificial crutches or other ‘karen-features’ (banning GDKPs) would instantly make me quit because of what it says about how they are planning to develop the game.

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Tell me more about your farming experience. Have you tried farming for your mats? Why does it take 5-20 hours to get what you feel you need?

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Well, i’m sorry, but it’s just that the things you say don’t match my experience… but I guess it’s different for different people.

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You know what ? SoD had more players than progressive classic during p1.
And right now ? It would appear that one cataclysm realm has more players than the entire SoD servers. So clearly they did quit.

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I started on era as a lvl 1 Dwarf priest named Cumpassion on Era almost exactly a year ago, full bis with an atiesh now and I never bought gold. Recently started playing horde, got my 2nd 60 and going through bwl and aq40 to get some gear. It absolutely is “easy” to hop into the GDKP scene from fresh, but you need to farm mats and do some work. The people that deserve to hop into raids and get gear are people that are carries or people that bring something to the table - there are plenty of 3 hour MC SR runs you can join if you’d prefer to skip that. Do ZG’s and AQ20s on lockout, farm some herbs/boar lungs/light feathers/whatever, and you absolutely can catch up. Will buying gold be faster? Sure, but I never liked cheat codes anyway. Lastly, if you are good at the game you can figure it out, if you aren’t good at the game you might blame GDKP’s for why you haven’t yet.

Checked your logs Warbro, your issues have nothing to do with Dwarflord and GDKP’s and 100% to do with the fact that you’re most cast spell was SLAM in the one MC I see you’ve logged

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I’m just making up a number but let’s say like 2-3 flasks, 100 major heath pots, 50 major mana pots, 100 swiftness pots, 20 faps, 400 grenades, magic dust, flash bombs, 30 rocket boots, etc. are probably about what’s needed for 1 week of heavy pvp.

I have no idea how long it would take to farm, but the time I am willing to dedicate to farming on a 5 year old server, that I have been actively playing on, is about zero.

Now on a fresh it would be totally diff and I’d farm gold (usually devilsaur) and buy my consumes that way.

Why make an effort to learn or ask questions to those who know? When instead one can go around blaming others and never look at themselves.

It seems this thread should have been titled: “I’m new to warrior on Era and not sure how to properly do my rotation - please help groups aren’t giving me full cut in GDKP”

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OK I have a case both in favor of and opposed too GDKP, and I am being 100% fair because I have done ONE ever, but it went ok; it was one of the more “LEGIT” ones out there who’s name would be getting me banned so Ill just leave that part out.

Anyway, here are the advantages of GDKP.

  1. You get to play in what is 90% of a real guild feeling run. I would not say its a pure guild experience speed run but its darn decent.

  2. You get paid at the end even if its a partial cut this is a crap ton better than REAL progression where you get nothing but a repair bill and wait on “PRIO” loot that is a normal part of the progression experience.

  3. you have the option to go after non-prio loot.

  4. Basically you consumables are paid for making participation a 1 time investment then its self sustaining after.

Now the negative.

  1. Rush mentality people who want to Zug right into AQ / Naxx in greens and blues who buy gold pollute the gold pool. Worse the GDKP crowd knows it and takes the coin any way because if they don’t then another competing group will, because Blizzard is slack on punishment of gold buying. Back when Gold buying was 1000000X more common in Classic 2019 (before Era) I know a lot of my old guild who bought gold and only 2 of them got a ban that did not stop them, they simply picked a new account up (they bought that too) and continued on because they were able to both buy and transfer that new character / account over to our server.
  2. Scam GDKP groups are sadly common and honestly I have a hard time trusting people to do the right thing. This is why I am very skeptical about any group that’s not extremely well established.
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I’m in a SR prog raid with dwarflord like rn bro LOL

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Thanks for bearing with me. I needed to build up a picture of what your expectations are and why you are saying the things you’re saying.

Honestly, even on a server where you didn’t have to compete with bots, that would take a fair amount of time to farm every week, definitely far more than you would spend playing the game in non-farming activities to be sure. Truth be told, I’m not even sure that is meaningfully possible while still leaving you any kind of PvP time left over.

So now here’s the probem. You, and a lot of other players, have build up an expectation that you have to have your consumables one hundred percent of the time. In fact, you said above…

The trouble here is that the game just wasn’t designed for this. You weren’t supposed to have consumables all of the time. They were supposed to be things you used to tip the scales of a fight when you had them, but because they were intended to be a scarce resource, it would be more arbitrary. Sometimes you would have them and a fight would end in your favour. Sometimes your enemy would have them and a fight would end in their favour. Sometimes neither of you would have them.

You want to be the best though. Or at least be the best you think you can be. So you endeavour to have those consumables available for every single fight and when you don’t have them, you don’t want to PvP. You think that anybody who doesn’t share this viewpoint also shouldn’t PvP. So you get what is a staggering list of consumables, an amount no one person should be able to obtain for themselves, and you get the gold for it through GDKP runs which take a fraction of the time it would take to farm them normally.

The thing about that gold though is that humans aren’t generating it, not at the rates you need it. A lot of that gold is generated by bots over the course of WoW Classic. A lot of it likely came from when 24/7 rogue pickpocketing was going on in BRD. That’s gold that gets sold to players for real life money who then take that into GDKP and give it to you. You then take that gold and give it to the bots that are farming resources/consumables and listing it on the AH, which they then sell to players.

This is a loop that benefits you greatly, but can’t you see how this is extremely damaging to the game? What you are doing should not be possible, and yet it is.

Furthermore, you state that if you couldn’t acquire this list of consumables, you’d just outright quit. You know, if consumables were operating at their intended scarcity, not being generated by bots and then purchased by folks such as yourself, this whole issue would resolve itself. Your PvP experience would be largely unchanged except that you would maybe think a little harder about what situations where you would use a consumable, likewise for your opponents. Most of the time you’d just be doing PvP without your consumables, living life just like folks did back in Vanilla.

This whole dang fiasco has come out of what is essentially an arms race of people zugging to be the “best” by any means necessary and the game as a whole has suffered for it.

That’s kinda nuts, man. Like, I don’t blame you… but I do??? You’re just playing the game that you and those like you have made for yourselves, but this entire situation is entirely borne out of your collective inability to deal with the implications of scarcity. When internally posed the question of “Do I need this right now?” the answer is apparently, unequivically, “YES!!!111seven”.

By the way this isn’t just PvP, this is PvE in a nutshell too. I again point out the absolute irony of every single person crying about changes while also participating in GDKP so they can break the game with consumables they were never meant to have 100% uptime on. I guess changes are only bad when Blizzard does it?

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post logs plz

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Dude did you not read his entire post? he literally gave you answers to why your experience is poopoo. Put in the work man, its MUCH easier to get gold now then it EVER was from 2019 due to inflation. you can farm 1-2k a day on a very very casual play time and then join raids and buy min bid gear because right now mc/bwl 95% of loot is min bid…

if that is not something you want to do “GDKP” go SR runs man its more casual friendly now then it ever was before due to how easy gold can be acquired to buy consumes.

OH! and avoid certain jaja runs for ZG/AQ20 if your not planning to buy. those are toxic runs anyway forcing crap gear down your throat and if you dont buy no cut type of poop. So in that regards join a guild and run that stuff with them to avoid the toxic community.

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Well, there is a simple solution to consume price, GDKPs.

You say the gold comes from bots but that’s not necessarily true, by far the majority of players do not go into naxx, most level toons, play in the world, and do other things. Those sorts of activities generate gold and consumes. When those players want to get geared they have to enter naxx, and pay for those items, that’s where the raiders who spend the time already getting their naxx gear are able to earn the gold fastest.

The most scarce thing on vanilla servers for pve isn’t gold or even naxx gear - it is geared and competent raiders and hosts to put together raids. Thus, there are so many more buyers that want to enter naxx than groups that can take them.

People are welcome to do SR / LC / other sorts of progression naxx, but there are tons of other downsides to those systems (including organizing enough like minded players).

There is insane demand for naxx gear and if players with gold want to go after it that is fine.

Anti-GDKP is basically creating a problem where there is none. The only people harmed by GDKPs are those that basically bring down raids and refuse to improve. Everyone else has a fair chance to join the system and work their way to full bis carry toon that can also get big payout.

The gold to buy pvp consumes has been a non-issue for anyone who raids GDKPs naxx. There is no issue with the way things are. The people that complain today, would complain just as much if GDKPs are banned.

Anyone (who isn’t already a pvp god) and doesn’t raid naxx probably doesn’t have the gear to pvp at the top level anyways, so having consumes isn’t their priority to improve.

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GDKP is the solution to the problem that GDKP created.

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Surprisingly there really aren’t any on Whitemane Cluster.