I have been kicked out of raids a couple of times now with no apparent reason. All I want to do is play and enjoy the raids and dungeons. I think the ability to kick someone out of the raid should be changed.
I haven’t paid too much attention to the Classic environment, but at least back in Vanilla, things went through a lot of iteration. I believe trash respawn timers were nerfed quite a few times just to be less annoying to groups, cause often especially if you were wiping and having to re-do, you’d just have trash spawn back on top of you especially if it was a decent run back like Lyceum all the way to Thaurissian etc. Taking any breaks just made that worse, cause sometimes you were just committing to have to re-do an entire wing’s worth of trash because someone needed to pee.
Now that obviously changed a fair bit in later patches, and newer dungeons don’t have the issue, but at least a part of that is that newer dungeons are split up into much smaller chunks.
To be fair, in dungeon wings, this effectively translates to you might want something off Mechanar’s last boss, but someone else wants something off Arcatraz’s second boss. Or whatever. The compulsion (from rewards) to reset and farm the same dungeon really comes down to whether they made loot drops diverse and good, and how prevalent loot drops are. It’s obviously MUCH worse and grindier when we consolidate 2 items from 3-5 bosses into one chest, making it a 1/9 chance AFTER you roll the 2/5 chance to even get a drop for the item you want, etc, and it turns out that item is Scale, so it’s vastly out of balance with every other possible option. That sort of system is built around, even encourages grindiness. It’s not about megadungeons vs. wings, or slow-paced vs fast-paced, it’s an entirely different problem imposing itself into the mix.
Hot take from me, but I don’t think CC actually adds much value except as a rare occurence/mechanic. All it adds is a much more rigid binary of whether or not you have someone to CC-lock a mob every 50 seconds or whatever.
Now if we were getting into something like Hunters back in the day who could keep 3 mobs locked down at once, while juggling dealing damage, creating a fairly constant-action, high-adrenaline environment to get it right, keep track of several different things at the same time, and not screw up? That’s a different story, THAT was actually entertaining.
I don’t seem to recall having any issues with trash spawns in dungeons back in the day, only raids, but that was a long time ago so I just may just not remember that. Classic always uses the end-patch of each expansion though, so there were definitely no issues. It’s still there to play and those old dungeons, with their old designs, are a lot of fun. If you ever wanted to replay those old dungeons, it’s there, though in Classic Era you’d probably want to bring your own group haha. There’s an active community, but it’s fairly small and mostly end-game.
I’m not so sure. I think it really comes down to, do I want this thing and do I have it yet? I’ve certainly found myself farming items many times in Shadowlands, but also in Classic. Once folks stop needing something from a dungeon though, it tends to fall down in priority. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but if you like that long dungeon experience then even in the current design, a wing will tend to get dropped.
It’s just the nature of players. I remember back in OG Vanilla trying to complete my hunter dungeon set (because I thought it was cool, lol). I had bad RNG and it took a lot of runs before it dropped, and a lot of my friends just didn’t want to run Scholo anymore because they had long since gotten everything they needed.
I’m not saying winged designs are bad here, it’s a good thing to be able to more effectively choose how you spend your time. I’m just saying that this approach tends to diminish those long dungeon crawls and just going into the entrance for the wing you want has a very different feel (to me), than going into BRD and saying, “We just want to do a lower city circuit.” and leaving the rest untouched.
Maybe a personal perception?
That’s fair and I don’t think you’re alone. I just think having to utilize CC in packs (sparingly) adds a lot of gameplay. I mean, some packs have adds you need to interrupt, others you need to stun. Having some where they’re just threatening enough in a big pull that you have to CC to separate them is just another tool for dealing with trash and I think it mixes the gameplay of “gather up and aoe” a bit more.
You do have options for CC though. Even in Classic most classes had some form of crowd control that you could utilize to split things up if you needed to. What you describe with the hunter does sound awesome, but I think that’s more an example of a specialized class skillset that only they can do.