I understand how upsetting it is to be kicked from a group when you’re having fun, and the worst part is nobody tells you why. Also, if you’re DPS chances are you waited 20-30 minutes just to get the group. So frustrating - I get it. However, can you make any suggestions that might help Blizzard solve the problem?
Perhaps they could require all 4 players to agree to the kick? Maybe there should be a message sent to the kicked player telling them why they were kicked? Or maybe blizzard should track players who kick and limit that activity to say 2 times per 24 hour period? I’m just throwing things out there.
I don’t even get the rush to kick thing and losing their minds over something like that. Whatever happened to a simple, negative reinforcement like ‘gg huntard’ for the mess up and continuing with the dungeon, with everyone who started in the group.
So, what happened was someone had no idea how their skills work even though they are 120 (because lets be honest, no one has used barrage one time and not realized that the skill reaches far past the initial mob you were targeting), the tank got annoyed because having other people pull extra packs is one of the most annoying things to a tank, tank rages and quits after a failed vote to kick. So far, I see nothing wrong with the story here. Legitimate reasons for starting a vote to kick, good on you for giving the guy a second change, tank doesn’t want to deal with the group so decides to leave.
Now the group starts to rage because the 2 remaining members would have preferred to keep the tank and replace the dps that would have taken milliseconds to replace instead of waiting 5-20 minutes for a rep tank. Again, an understandable stance considering it was the hunter that made the mistake.
Continuing on, you defend the hunter because he is ignorant of his character and you believe he deserves the chance to make mistakes and continue in the dungeon. Commendable on your part. Personally, as a tank main, I would have been annoyed but would have continued on with the dungeon after one ninja pull as you describe while in the back of my mind ready to vote to kick if the hunter does it again. Since you defend the hunter and are, in their eyes, the reason the vote failed and the tank left, their ire turns towards you. Here is where I would love to see some chat logs or screenshots because your attitude in this forum so far doesn’t support your claim that you declined to respond because you are “mature”. Either way, you get vote kicked for your stance, and then the hunter is vote kicked because you aren’t there to protect him.
Ultimately, this is a series of unfortunate events but I don’t see abuse or any egregious misuse of the system that would dictate the system needs to be changed, much less completely removed. You did an honorable thing when you stood up for the hunter, and unfortunately like most times people do the honorable thing, you were punished just like the original defender was. It sucks, but that is the price you pay for standing up for others and it is generally why most people will stay quite during situations like yours. If you want to stand up for other people, you have to be ready to fall with them as well. I am not saying what you did was wrong, but you have to be prepared for the consequences of your actions and just know that you did the right thing in the end.
Gotcha. Most of the time you see “kicked for no reason” posts it’s because the dudes were being nasty or trolling. I’ve never been kicked so i might have some bias on the subject.
I have seen the suggestion to limit kicks per day to 2 or 3, the only problem with this is that it is going to limit people from queuing up. You think a 20-30 minute queue is long as dps, institute a kick limit and that timer only goes up because the majority of vote to kick starts are going to come from tanks and healers. I say this as a primarily tank main, I consider myself pretty leniant and don’t generally rush to kick people after a single mistake (ninja pulling being the most common and annoying). However, I will not hesitate to kick someone if they are AFK, or repeatedly (3-4 times) pulling additional groups. I don’t consider myself a slow tank, but I do keep a constant watch on the healers mana, I know what each pack does in terms of damage and skills (which should be interrupted but never are in LFD outside of myself), and I know how much I can handle. People ninja pulling means that the healer is going to expend far more mana on that pull, I am probably going to have to pop cooldowns, and many many many mobs are not going to have important skills interrupted… and ultimately we are probably going to die. Not a big problem for the first time/accidental occurrence. But often times when you are leveling a tank, you get dps that are higher level than you are and they believe they are gods in dungeons and thus want to pull pull pull, or they have a big AOE cooldown like Bladestorm and want to see their big fancy level 118 damage meter numbers so they overpull and wipe the group. I find these occurrences annoying and not what I signed up for, so I vote to kick them and generally the group agrees because no one likes wiping repeatedly on content that they have done hundreds of times without dying at all.
Anyways, sorry about the long post but back to my original point. If I can only kick 2 people per day there are going to be days when I hit that 2 kick limit and just stop queuing up for dungeons (and I am sure there are other tanks/healers that are of the exact same mindset) so that depletes the tank/healer pool and increases queue times.
No it would be abused so bad itd be unusable. But they should have a feature like ffxiv…that kicks can be reviewed by gm’s and if found to be abusive reason for a kick the players can be and will be consequences for it.
So what is the solution you would like to be implemented that does not remove VtK out of the picture? How would you know if a VtK is legit, and more importantly, what are these ‘repercussions’ that you want implemented?
You seem to think they will care about that. In the worst case scenario, they will just return back to modern WoW and forget/delete their characters out of the classic server.
I wasn’t lambasting you, I was simply pointing out flaws with your suggestion so that you would consider your suggestion from another point of view. Is that not what a healthy debate is based upon?
I very rarely do dungeons, most of my characters are leveled through questing and islands because I find them much faster and far, far less dependent on others. I don’t consider giving someone 2-3-or even 4 chances a toxic decision once they get kicked. If people refuse to learn from their mistakes, then they are a detriment to the entire community. These are the basic rules of any society. The problem is that the easy content is (LFD normal/heroic, LFR) the more people want to abuse other people in the group. Too often you get people that afk, troll, or put forth 10% effort so they can get carried through the content. If someone encounters this multiple times in a day, then your suggest imposes a punishment on that person rather than the people that actually deserve to be punished. Your very suggestion increases toxicity in the community!
In 99% of the dungeon kicks I’ve seen when running dungeons, the person that got kicked was told what they were doing wrong and warned. They didn’t comply and got kicked. That or they were DC’ed or AFK for too long.
I’ll agree here, without some of the chatlogs to actually back up OP’s claim they were “mature” about it, we can only take it as the group viewed OP as the reason the original vote failed, and the tank rage quit, vote kicking them at this point is a no brainer when the groups already upset.
Sure it might not exactly be fair or ideal, but the vote kick system exists for a reason. OP has to face the music of their consequences/choices, not just whine and complain because it didn’t go their way.
I get it. I do. I 100% sympathize, but I don’t think it should be removed. What should happen is a removal of the deserter buff so that people can leave a dungeon without a heavy penalty.
The kick vote needs to stay. Just today, I had two kick votes (I didn’t initiate them). We had a priest who was pulling and wouldn’t stop when the tank asked her to. This was a heroic Motherlode dungeon, and she was going to wipe us but hard. The tank was going at a very swift pace, so I have no idea why she felt the need to pull.
The second vote kick was a mage who was afk through half of the instance in one of our time walkers today.
That’s just one day and one person with a good use of the vote kick. Like it’s been said above, for every time someone is kicked unfairly…many, many more allow a group to proceed through a dungeon without someone who was ruining it for the other four players.
Removing the deserter penalty would go a LONG way to making the situation more tenable. We’re always going to have jerks on the internet, but in my experience, most people are kind and fun and trying to be competent players. Maybe reserve the 30-minute timeout for someone who is kicked more than x times in a day or something.
I think that would be a better solution and go a long way to fixing the problems.
No - it is hardly doing more damage than good. The system wouldn’t last for 4 hours without masses of threads on this forum happening if they removed vote to kick.
Some people actually manage to never get kicked out of dungeons - some like me only a handful of times in 8 years. There is no huge problem. If you are encountering a problem maybe look closer to home on this one.
And they already tried doing it this way - it didn’t work. People who didn’t like the dungeon or the group - mostly healers or tanks would try to force the group to kick them so they could get a better group. I was in a group like this in cata - healer tried to hold the entire group hostage.
There are plenty of complaints about everything in the game but that’s not reason enough to remove something entirely.
There isn’t a way to make a foulproof, well, anything in the game and that especially goes for things where players might have control over other players such as the kick system.
The lack of a kick system would almost certainly mean LFR would be completely undoable because groups would be stacked with afk bots or people trolling for hours or even days on end.
Of course the larger argument could be to get rid of LFR entirely thus eliminating the need for the vote system but you can also make run dungeons and raids with preset groups of people instead of just randoms.
![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")