Now it’s being abused a different way, so it’s time to relook at the system, in game development there’s never “end of story”.
If they really need to keep it for abuse purposes, have deserter only apply after so many kicks from group. Most innocent people aren’t going to get kicked multiple groups in a row.
And just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it isn’t prevalent, it happens a LOT
what do you mean by “innocents”?
you don’t need to be “guilty” of anything in order to be subjected to a kick with debuff.
Again, it is not an abuse of the system, nor is it abusing the player, if others choose they don’t want that person in their group.
It’s literally not being abused at all.
If you are not performing to the standards that the rest of the group is setting it is their right to remove you from the group. It doesn’t matter if you personally don’t think its fair. They weren’t trolling you, they weren’t being malicious, they just didn’t like your performance and they showed it using the systems at their disposal.
The systems we have now are working as intended and they should remain as they are. I do not want to see people who would abuse the VTK system being allowed to get away with their actions without punishment. There is a reason this safeguard was put into place. It needs to stay.
Tanks get kicked all the dang time for pulling one extra mob or not going the most efficient route, it’s this type of behavior that leads to tank shortages.
If you’re trying to claim the system isn’t being abused, that’s fine I suppose, I can understand your reasoning. Your reasoning, however, does not provide sufficient enough reason to justify having deserter tacked onto vote kicks.
If you think people aren’t troll kicking people, I got a real nice bridge to sell you.
And? The fact that a deserter debuff is attached to this doesn’t change how players inside the dungeon are going to react or not. You could remove the deserter debuff if you’re kicked and the behaviour of people in the dungeon would not change and that behaviour is what leads to tank shortages, not the attached debuff.
Did you even bother reading what i quoted? No? That was completely different conversation about Vote Kick abuse.
You didn’t quote anyone, you replied to Nobully, but there’s no quote there.
What I just did? That’s me quoting you. Replying =/= Quoting.
My point still stands. The behavior of people inside dungeons will not change if there is a debuff or not, and it is the behavior of people inside the dungeons which causes tanks to stop wanting to tank, because why put up with players who won’t listen, pull ahead of them, abuse them in chat, or force them to rush? There’s no reason for them to want to continue doing that, and the existence of a deserter debuff won’t change that.
why not have him queue as dps?
What does he learn that way?
It’ll let then requeue quicker when it happens, that big enough
He can watch the other tank as well as set his loot specialization to protection to keep getting gear for his tank spec.
End of the day, and here is the end of story fact.
This safeguard was put in place to stop tanks/healers abusing the VTK system to get out of doing dungeons they didn’t like.
Unfortunately this has led to an extremely small minority of players getting debuffs when they’ve been kicked because of poor performance in a dungeon.
But without the safeguard the abuse would return and we’d be right back to where we were when LFD launched during WotLK. With players abusing the VTK system to get out of dungeons they don’t like.
Blizzard will not reenable toxic behaviour, so my advice is to stop trying to convince them to do so.
The other tank may not be his class, he doesn’t know what skills that tank is using when, most people also learn better by doing. Being a new tank is no excuse to get kicked and queuing as dps is not a good way to learn to tank
It needs to be relooked at, sorry you cant see that but it does, a kick shouldn’t be an immediate deserter, multiple kicks should
My question who sets the standards of how the group performs?
The group i was in was not failing or doing anything crazy. Just a new tank who is learning his role. It was kinda of just a dishearten moment where we were like “Why the hell were you kicked and why the hell you get the deserter buff?!”
End of the day though. Joke kind of was on the group that kicked him when I expressed what happened to my guild, me and 4 over geared leather wearers went through a Mythic 0 and just handed him every piece of gear anyways. End of the night he went from 310 to 347 in a couple of dungeons.
I don’t normally run LFD so I had no idea about potential abuses on both sides so that’s why the deserter buff is there. kind of does suck being vote kicked for silly reasons.
Simply put it’s majority rule. If 3 people think the Tank isn’t moving fast enough and want them gone, then they can kick the tank. (this changes if 3 party members are from the same guild, then it’s 4 people required for the kick, not 3).
I’ll be honest, it does suck to get hit with the debuff because you got kicked. It does, but I’d rather see people who get kicked be hit with the debuff, rather than see abusive/toxic behaviour return in the form of players demanding that they be kicked because they don’t want to do X dungeon.
And people wonder why no one wants to tank lfd anymore, you’re a huge part of the problem. No one should advocate kicking new tanks
You’re misinterpreting my words. Not surprising, but these forums rarely surprise me anymore. I never said that I advocated the kicking of new tanks. New tanks should be encouraged and helped as best they can, but not every group has people with my mindset in them. There will be groups that have people who want the ‘go go go rush’ speed and won’t tolerate slow individuals.
But this safety net is there to prevent abusive behaviour and I will not advocate for its removal. It is necessary for the health of the game.