nobody is going to get actioned because they didn’t want to play with someone else.
ANYTHING is reportable.
…that doesn’t mean it’s actionable… because it’s not.
Using a system how it was intended, is not an abuse of the system.
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Yes, they can get actioned, disrupting gameplay, including refusing to play in group finder is reportable and suspendable
refusing to play, has nothing to do with vtk.
that’s exactly what kicks are for… so you can kick the inactive player.
Then your post has nothing to do with what I was saying? People think deserter is needed to deal with trolls and people who refuse to play, it’s not, the report system is there for that.
And as a side note, i haven’t seen someone refuse to play in YEARS, since like the occulus, and the only trolls I run into are the ones who abuse vote kick
No, he got a deserter debuff because the other people in the party didn’t want him in their group. Being voted out of a group is all it takes to get the debuff. This isn’t a schoolyard where people are forced to play with you or your friend.
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People like you are the reason we have tank shortages.
It sucks for the friend, truly it does. But the reason why the deserter debuff applies when people are kicked now is because there were players that were abusing the system to get out of dungeons they didn’t want to do.
Essentially they’d zone in (this happened a lot during Wrath of the Lich King) to say the Oculus dungeon, and if they were a tank or healer instead of leaving immediately (because that would give them a deserter debuff) they’d refuse to move until the group VTK’d them, then they’d be out of that group with no debuff and free to get another instant queue for hopefully a dungeon they wanted to run.
Obviously Blizzard didn’t like this behaviour so they put a stop to it.
Yeah I remember doing that,
Oculus was a special case, dungeons are so easy now I doubt we’d see prevalence of that again. It’s also what the report system is for, like I said, that action is suspendable (refusing to play). Attaching deserter to vote kick just gives trolls more fuel nowadays since the “fun troll thing to do” is vote kick people for no reason.
You’re very naiev if you think that tanks and healers won’t immediately abuse the system again to get out of doing dungeons that take too long or are too complicated (in terms of navigation) for their liking. Waycrest Manor for example? With its random routes every dungeon? I know plenty of tanks and healers who would gladly abuse the VTK system if that was an option just to not do that dungeon. Same with Tol Dagor if the party doesn’t have a rogue.
Report them, kick them, move on. The deserter debuff is hurting far too many innocents.
No, it is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing.
It’s code, code can’t determine the context of a situation. I would rather have a few unfortunate players caught in a net than create a situation that allows people willing to abuse the VTK system to destroy dungeon groups by holding them hostage until the group kicks them.
It sucks for them, but random dungeon queues are better off as a whole for it. Let’s not cut the fishing net and let all the fish out just because the net caught a few fish it shouldn’t have.
The current system doesn’t prevent people from holding dungeons hostage until the group kicks them. They’re able to do it, just deserter holds off the inevitable. Vote to kick should not be a replacement for the more appropriate report player function already in-game, it should be what it says it is, a vote to kick a player from a group, not a pre-emptive attempt at stopping trolling - That’s what reporting is for.
No, instead let’s cut off the leg to spite the foot. Cause that’s what we’re doing. Far more innocents are caught up in it from trolls abusing the system then there would be people holding groups hostage.
I agree with what you’re saying. There’s probably as much trolling abusing the vote to kick system as there is trolling by holding groups hostage; The deserter debuff attached to vote kicks doesn’t solve a problem, it just creates a new one.
Yes it does, because let’s say you’re a tank that doesn’t want to do say… Waycrest Manor. You decide to camp at the entrance and not do your job because you hate the dungeon. Okay, we punt you. You get the deserter debuff, we get a replacement and move on.
Without the deserter debuff. There’s no punishment for you not wanting to do your job, which mind you isn’t against the rules so I can’t report you for it. If you don’t want to do a dungeon, I can’t force you, no one can, not even Blizzard. So sure, I could ‘report you for trolling’ but nothing would happen, because you’re not breaking any rules.
So the only punishment you’re going to get is the deserter debuff, which you absolutely deserve if you refuse to do the job you signed up for when you joined the dungeon.
Deserter really isn’t long enough to do anything, it’s what? 15 minutes? That’s shorter then what someone would probably be trying to get away from.
If they really want to keep it for abuse purposes, have it only apply after you’ve been kicked from X number of groups
“far too many?” I think that’s an exaggeration. I’ve recently leveled and I’ve rarely seen anyone kicked unless they flat-out went afk or disconnected. Never for “bad dps” which I would have expected to see more of. Maybe once or twice I saw a healer or tank kicked for being badder than bad.
There was this one case where a moron kept trying to vtk me on my DK for being “afk” when I was clearly doing damage, but I think that had more to do with that person being annoyed I was getting UP quest items. That was an anomaly and only happened once, but didn’t work anyway. (I knew about it because a friend said, “someone is trying to kick you”).
The debuff system was put in place for a reason. What we had before was a lot worse. This is really what it comes down to. It isn’t an agree/disagree debate. The system was abused and a safeguard was put in place. That’s pretty much the end of the story.
If you’re a regular person that doesn’t want to do a dungeon because you hate it, you’ll leave the dungeon. If you’re a troll that wants to hold groups hostage, you won’t care if there’s a short deserter debuff preventing you from queuing for a little bit, you’ll wait it out and then immediately go back into trolling again. Vote to kick is a punishment in and of itself, it does not need any other punishments tacked onto it for it to do it’s job.
If you are kicked you should get instant que. Kicked twice, then you get a debuff.