Dumpster Fire:

Community General Discussion
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SO what we are saying is .

:biohazard: x :wastebasket: + :fire: = :crossed_swords: :four: :globe_with_meridians:

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Nyaria. Sit on my mechagnome lap and let me tell you a story. A story so long ago, before World of Warcraft. Stories about RPGs when they were RPGs and had systems of stats before levels became such a huge thing and of standards.

A story about Quest 64 on the N64. A story about Ultimas 1-6. A story about many games that predate what you know as an RPG. Also, MMOs like:

Helbreath (similar to below).
Khan the Absolute Power (where stats trumped level, but you got stat points for leveling - weird times).

And many more.

Games where you typed to NPCs to find quests, read quest text for clues to ask about, etc.

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Some of us have lots of cash to entertain ourselves with…

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What I need to know is a series of things:

  1. Are bags going to inherently have scaling slots with all expansions being 10-50 zones, or is BfA/Draenor/Legion crafting still going to be supreme in that regard?

  2. Which element of the game log determines what an ‘experienced player’ is, in regards of alts going to level where they see fit rather than BfA?

  3. In the event of Shadowlands being good legitimately, how do we prevent lv 60 from feeling like a hamster wheel treadmill if it does happen to be the final expac?

And most importantly: which fork are we supposed to eat our salad with? Will our mine picks be required to equip to mine again? Will Engineering ever be able to craft it’s own AH rather than paying 20 wow-tokens worth of money to buy a single one?

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Wrong. All MMOs are Everquest clones, even wow.

Haha no. WoD was still better than BFA. No content/decent class design > garbage content/terrible class design.

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Your toon on your profile has the same profile of LFR people. Your toon right now is weaksauce whether you beat Naxx40 or Lich King in WoTLK. Your current toon is weak. Since you dont want to grind, Good luck.

Whether you like it or not, WoW was the best MMO 15 years ago and arguably still the best 15 years after. Other MMOs right now are dumpster fire.

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And you know what also existed…?

RPGS like Dungeons and Dragons, with levels, skills and stat allocations. :woman_shrugging:

Congrats you know some archaic old games that used different systems.

Am I suppose to be impressed…? I’ve never remotely heard any of these games, and I’ve been playing Video games for a very long time.

I’m glad if you found something you enjoy, you have fun with that. I’m simply stating I’ve never heard of it, and from what I’ve looked at in regards to it, it doesn’t look that great.

To each their own though. I still don’t think there’s a better game on the market than WoW right now in the MMORPG genre.

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BFA is a dumpster fire. Don’t feel personally attacked because I attacked a dumpster fire of an expansion.

There’s a difference in a grind and a treadmill. If you grind, you can, generally, get ahead of others.

However, Blizzard has artificially capped the Cloak and other things to where it’s more beneficial to wait. So, leveling it all up now is more painful than just waiting. That’s not how grinding works, buddy.

And, trust me, I’ve played Korean MMOs, I know what a grind is. A grind is a thing to get ahead, not run in place with no progression.

These new, flashy games owe almost everything to the giants like D&D, Ultima, and so on. However, they’ve stepped off the shoulders of those giants and are plummeting down to the ground at the moment. Take away the RPG in an MMO, you lose narrative, driven purpose for playing, etc.

In an RPG, your reason for playing should be the story and ability to immerse yourself into the world. In an MMO, it should be cooperation and working with others for a shared purpose and goal.

  1. They wrecked the lore and immersion (see end cinematic). See Sylvanas wrecking the Lich King.

  2. You can just queue up with a bunch of random jackwagons because a third party site said they had good numbers.

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I agree BFA has had a subpar story. But I also have yet to see an MMO do better.

I don’t really think the end Cinematic of BFA is nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. I do think Sylvanas wrecking Bolvar was stupid though.

And I’ll never use RaiderIO. :woman_shrugging:

I play the game to quest, run dungeons once in a while, roleplay with others in a setting I enjoy, and just chill for the most part.

The RPG is still quite apparent here in WoW. and While it might not be the best, again, I’ve still not seen a single game do it better.

WoW’s showing cracks of aging for trying to carry a MMO story on for 15 years.

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  1. SWTOR, for all its problems, had some really good story-telling. They actually focused on it for a few DLCs. See Revan and all of that.

  2. It really is. See my post above, explaining why. Just because the thing dies doesn’t mean its servants are going to be okay with this. Also, buildings and structures not even related to the Old God just exploded for no discerned reason because he exists.

  3. Doesn’t matter if you do, you still have a score.

  4. Roleplay -was- the thing that kept me around. See my server.

  5. The RPG is NOT apparent here. No ammunition. No choice in progression, talents, or trees to be the character you want to be. Abilities from other specs robbed from your’s. Remember how some classes got nerfed because they didn’t want people playing them (said in a live stream)!

  6. WoW is not showing cracks of aging. They’re literally putting lore in books that aren’t shown in-game and we’re running into things we have to fork out money to know why it is as it is. Sidenote - Sylvanas’s source - not revealed in any books, this was as surprising to us as it was to the NPCs, because that was outta nowhere. The story-tellers are just bad.

Tolkienn’s Lord of the Rings took 12 years to write and were more consistent and entertaining (speaking of which, Blizzard stole the destruction of Sauron for N’Zoth). Don’t even TRY this.

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That’s fine, but doesn’t change my point.

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  1. I played SWTOR, the stories were not that great. Sometimes they were amusing, but you can find amusing quests in WoW too. I don’t consider SWTOR’s story telling better than WoW’s. And the gameplay is definitely a very cheap knock off of WoW.

  2. N’zoth controlled things through insanity, mind control, and fear. Suddenly you remove the giant source that causes the insanity/mindcontrol/fear and blast away Nya’lothia with the Beam of Reorigination, and suddenly not only is N’zoth dead, but his powerbase is massively weakened. The reason structures exploded is the re-origination ray got blasted into Nya’thoa (However you spell it) that weapon literally is made to completely wipe out EVERYTHING, the only thing Azeroth is safe, is because Nya’lothia is another dimension, and N’zoth stupidly opened a gate straight to him. The ending was fine, and as long as you actually understand the re-origination ray, (You know the weapon people fought a message of the titans in Ulduar to prevent from firing and wiping us ALL OUT) and how powerful it is, then really the ending makes perfect sense.

  3. Not if you block the app, or refuse to join groups that require it, or make your own group and refuse to use the tool. :woman_shrugging: I got two major essences from Mythic+ that I wanted to farm on my shaman without ever using RaiderIO, it could simply not exist for all I care.

  4. Well we agree on something at least.

  5. Ammunition was a lazy gold sink that was more frustrating thant it was immersive. WoW’s never really had a choice progression, and games that do include choice progression usually are just black and white “Good vs Evil” choices that aren’t terribly compelling ( See SWTOR, their “Choices” are not compelling at all) Talent trees lost their meaning the moment people figured out optimized routes for them. They didn’t really provide that much customization for your classes, because they were all locked in specialization trees. Games like Path of Exile do “Talent Trees” alot better, WoW’s never done this aspect well.

Ability pruning is a plague as well, but they are supposedly stepping that back in Shadowlands, so until I see what exactly they are doing I cannot say much. (Yes I remember when they really didn’t want you to play demonology.)

  1. Aye, They need to incorporate lore from books in game better. I can agree with that, but has Tolkienn handed his story off to a few other writers and let them add their bits in? No…? Not a very large valid thing.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never stated WOW was perfect. All I’ve stated is that I do not see any MMO’s that do things as a whole better than WoW does. :woman_shrugging:

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  1. Revan things started after the third expac. They tried focusing on raiding, groups, etc., but found without story primarily, things got bad - real bad.

  2. Just because I’m weakened doesn’t mean buildings I built with my hands aren’t going to fall down. The buildings we see are just exploding out in Uldum. And those are built by the natives and Titans. Just… exploding randomly, yep.

  3. That’s an auto-decline.

  4. You could have crafted items from players that were useful that made professions worth it. Some of the best items in many games before this were made by players who did dungeons who got the drops. It gave crafters some work and jobs, made them worthwhile. Crafters should not be crafting catch-up gear.

  5. If they ever add Med’han, I’m running for the hills.

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This is important. I pre-ordered and am now having buyer’s remorse… I tried to get a refund but was denied. Lesson learned. :slightly_frowning_face:

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Can I have your stuff?

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Shoo. Rolls up a newspaper and baps the nose.

Also, this game is so bad you can’t even TAKE people’s stuff anymore.

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I hope they win ya back. I’m still enjoying the game personally. I’m not gonna refute any of what you’ve said, some of it’s accurate, some of it I disagree with, some of it I don’t care about, none of it’s enough to make me un-sub. Hopefully they fix your problems or you find your happiness in that other game. Best of luck to you.

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Wait, I don’t understand this part. If the former statement is true, why on earth would you do the latter?

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^^^ Pretty much hit the nail right on the head as always Ny. the core part of an MMO aside from story and gameplay are grinds. Can they take it down a notch? Sure but at the same time it’s more of a goal and despite what some perceive these days,quests including dailies ARE content as there’s more to an MMO than just the endgame. Sure,the necklace may not be liked by some but it’s only to be endured until the new expansion where said artifact point accumulance will no longer be a thing.

Despite all the hate that seems to come Blizzard’s way by doomsayers,I cant help but respect them for trying new features out as experimentation is important to keep your product from stagnating,especially with a fickle,super demanding Karen-esque fanbase with an insatiable appetite in terms of their gaming fix and will want to talk to the manager if slighted by even the smallest of things.

Honestly,BFA has its flaws but it really isnt as terrible as the melodrama makes it out to be. Especially when said gripers dont specify what is fun or “real content” in their eyes other than just raids.