Dumb Thoughts: We've already met the Haranir

… or at the very least, we’ve met versions of them.

I have a few theories. Cue the Pepe Silvia Meme.gif format and let’s get rolling.

Also, is anyone else absolutely loathing the new UI for writing posts? I’ve got this tiny little window to try and bang these things out in and I hate it with a burning passion I normally reserve for dealing with local government, phone spam/scam callers and religious door-knockers. This is utter :horse_face: :poop: and whoever thought this was a good idea needs to be repeatedly smacked with wet socks dipped in smelling salts and fish oil for their sins.

Thankfully I just figured out it is the ‘M :down_arrow: | A’ button in the top-left of the screen to toggle it back to the old function. Dear God.


1) Haranir infused with the Arcane:

We’ve already met these versions of the Haranir, namely the Kaldorei, and their descendents, the Shal’dorei, Quel’dorei and Sin’dorei. Like what seems to happen with most entities that become bound to, affected by or addicted to the Arcane, their forms grew taller, smoother, they lived longer and they became more (?) intelligent over time as the effects of the Arcane/Order magic on their beings became more and more entrenched and bred true.

We see lingering traces of the supposed ‘Troll’ ancestry in Kaldorei, with large incisors, sharp talons rather than nails in some individuals and most Kaldorei have pointed, rather than rounded, nails, long ears and skin colorations more reminiscent of Troll skin-tones than Humanoid ones, although it is interesting that being entirely cut off from the Well of Eternity caused the Quel’dorei/Sin’dorei to adopt almost entirely Human skin tones?

Possibility of a large-scale infusion of Human genetic material into the ancient Quel’dorei gene-pool? If the Quel’dorei really were the Highborne of the Old Capital of the Kaldorei Empire, then it stands to reason that, like most Nobles, they were all inter-related on some level, and after the near-genocide that was the Sundering, likely very few Highborne survived to join the rest of the Kaldorei rebel forces, and likely weren’t liked enough to join the deeper gene-pool of the rest of the survivors, especially if they refused to give up their Arcane focus. Maybe it was a part of the pact with the Arathai Tribe of Humans, marriages between the more important families between both peoples and exchanges of children as gestures of trust and/or hostages against future treachery? Half-Elves tend to still live prodigiously long lives, and re-introducing those Half-Elves back into Quel’dorei society would not only add much-needed depth to the Quel’dorei gene-pool after thousands of years of isolation and losing groups to violence, disease and internal strife, but also create connections with the growing Human nations that could be exploited for political, social and economic gain, and given how fast Humans tended to reproduce and how wide-spread they became as a result of the triple-whammy of intelligent adaptability, innate talent for arcane magic as descendants of Titanic Constructs and the ability to interbreed with damn near anything, it would behoove the Quel’dorei to maintain socially acceptable levels of connection with their ‘neighbors’ even as they kept Quel’thalas relatively secluded and isolated so that those same ambitious, avaricious neighbors stayed on their side of the fence!

But back to how Elves might be Haranir who became infused with the Arcane?

We know that the Haranir are servants of a ‘Goddess’. We know that they have strong cultural and religious taboos against interaction of any kind with outsiders, even if they are helpful when it comes to protecting Azeroth against the gnawing corruption of the Void, but we’ve also see that these Haranir are extremely Druidic in design, possibly the Ur-Druids themselves, predating the Ancient Tauren Druids before the Sundering and Troll Prelates of the Twin Empires and the 2nd generation of Druids created by Malfurion after the Sundering and with the guidance of Cenarius, the Sons of Cenarius and the Dryads.

But we’ve also seen exposure can happen and accidental mutation can occur despite abject loyalty of the individual towards a different Primal Power, and we know that the Kaldorei were said to have been descendants of Dark Trolls who settled around the shores of the Well of Eternity. What if Orwenya isn’t the first Haranir to break with tradition, but she’s simply a recurring theme, that a bold, adventurous and determined Haranir and their followers go out to handle threats that they think need to be dealt with directly, encounter something beyond their ability to handle, and as Creatures of Life, adapt to this new situation, regardless of if they wish to or not.

It would explain why Azshara and the Kaldorei Royal Family held privately-held disdain for Elune, not just personal narcissism, but a deeply-rooted belief that their Goddess had abandoned them and denied them the chance to go home because they were no longer, strictly speaking, Haranir, and having broken their social/religious taboos in the first place and leaving the Roots of the Original World Tree, would never be allowed to go home by the Elders and other, uncorrupted Haranir.


  1. Haranir infused with Spirit Energy

We’ve seen that Spirit Energy isn’t tied to any of the Six Primal Powers of Life, Light, Arcane, Death, Fel or the Void, but it is this strange, nebulous power innate to all ‘living’ worlds. Draenor had it, Argus had it, Azeroth had it but the ‘World Soul’ within was consuming large quantities of it, not producing it like we originally thought, and that shortage was what drove the Elementals native to Azeroth into conflict with one another.

We’re even led to believe that this shortage caused an evolutionary adaptation with many Elemental life-forms adopting organic or partially organic forms to compensate for this lack of Spirit Energy to consume to sustain themselves, namely the Proto-Dragons, ancestors to the Dragons who, again, prove that Arcane infusion ‘evolves’ creatures into larger, smoother, more universally intelligent creatures from non-Arcane touched ones. Possibly even the elemental Giants, the Djaradin, the Chimeras and possibly other creatures with elemental attributes not connected to the Titans are all examples of this evolutionary leap.

But it does make me question if Trolls were Haranir who fled to the surface for some reason? They share many physical traits of the Haranir, they are an intensely Life-aligned or Life-like species with their regeneration, their unique ability to biologically adapt to nearly any environment, but they are deeply connected to the Loa, entities that belong to the Realm of Death via the Winter Queen’s groves in Ardenweald, the Life-realm as they sustain and protect the biospheres of many, many different worlds and their connection to the Emerald Dream, and even the Titans by way of Freya, although this Titan appears to have ‘split’ loyalties compared to the rest of the Pantheon, with her lover being named as Elune, a Goddess of Life or so we assume.

Trolls might be what happens when a large group of Haranir are cut off from the energies of Life and, just like the elemental ancestors of the Proto-Dragons, Djaradin and other species, adapted to compensate for this loss. It is very interesting that the Loa specifically warned the Twin Empires of the ancient Trolls to never go near the Well of Eternity, and the Twin Empires weren’t exactly renown for being passive and peaceful … looks pointedly at the destruction they wrought on the ancestors of the Mantids, Nerubians and Silithid, the Twin Empire’s use of slaves, their long alliance with the Mogu of Pandaria, I mean, I could go on for hours here!.


  1. Haranir infused with Elemental Energy

Now this is gonna ruffle some feathers, but the odd race we encounter in Legion, and again in the Dragon Isles and in the War Within, the Drogbar are assumed by Xal’atath to have been failed creations of the Titans, but I think it goes in a different direction. We know that the Titans, specifically Tyr and Odyn, were secretly meddling with Elemental energies, exploring and exploiting elementally-infused creatures to study and understand the native species of Azeroth even more.

The Drogbar share many similarities with Trolls, especially Dire Trolls, and they are an underground-dwelling species only found in areas near Titanic Installations. While it is possible that Drogbar are Curse-of-Fleshed Golems, given their build and similar silhouette to Titan Golems such as we find in and around most Titanic Facilities, providing brute labor and protection, I think it is far more likely that Drogbar are an off-shoot of the same event that led to the creation of the original Trolls, but where the Trolls found symbiosis with the Loa, developing their signature regenerative abilities and unique biological adaptation abilities, the Drogbar’s ancestors did not bind with Loa, but with Elementals, as we see the Drogbar share a similarity to the same kinds of Earth Elementals they share space with, they possess rock- or stone-like growths and spikes around their elbows, calves, shoulders and most notably in the form of dorsal plates over their spine that also force them to hunch forwards to counterbalance this weight, and they possess similar tusks, ears and jaws to Zandalari Trolls, which are considered to be the most similar to the most primal and ancient form of Troll-kind.

The Drogbar also show a noticeable connection to Earth Elementals and Earth Magic, and while I do think there is weight to the Earthen>Trogg>Drogbar evolutionary theory, the inclusion of the Haranir and the overall lack of ‘upward’ evolution amongst the Trogg species, that seem to have plateaued both mentally and socially, and never moved beyond scavenging and crude shamanism that almost always revolves around ‘throw the rock really hard with your mind’ rather than the kind of deep Shamanism we see with the Drogbar, that involves earthquakes, controlling intelligent Earth Elementals and ordering them to do complex tasks, sculpting their cave systems with both magic and more mundane methods to provide a better environment to dwell in, actual peaceful interactions with the other species and being useful enough that Deathwing actively enslaved them as servants, rather than just wiping them out or turning them into fodder-troops to increase the chances of his actually useful mortal followers.

There’s also the theory that, we see Draenor-like Earth Kaiju in the War Within, and only around the areas where the Roots of the Original World Tree are present. Drogbar might be the descendants of these beings, much like Orcs are the result of the Magnaron of Draenor being affliction with the spores of the Sporemounds, loaded with Life energy that interacted with the Arcane Energy already within these Titan Constructs, which ‘devolved’ them into the Gronn, then the Ogres, then the Orcs. We do see, in the Elevator ride between where we fight the Maiden of Vigilance and the Avatar of Sargeras in the Tomb of Sargeras, that there are multiple layers between the Titanic facility and the actual ‘Tomb’ itself, and there are pools of molten Fel, caves full of fungus and giant skeletons, and a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it cave where a Draenor Magnaron is spotted splashing around in a lava-filled pool in a much larger cave system.

And the Broken Isles aren’t that far from where Y’Shaarj was torn out of the planet by Amun’thul, and we know now that the Titans had their creations engage in a stupefyingly massive terraforming process to create the Mantle, a network that would channel arcane energy across half a planet to multiple facilities, and would allow the Titans to directly access the World Soul to ‘study’ it and guide its growth into one of their own kind. Presumably, exposure to the Arcane and the ‘Life Energies’ within the still-living roots of the Original World Tree began mutating these ‘Azeroth’ Magnaron much as it did with the Draenor Ones, but the difference in origin and environmental pressure resulted in Drogbar, rather than Ogres and Orcs.


Or do I just need to be rolled on the grass again? What are your thoughts?

I’m not nearly as steeped in the lore as you are, I do think this makes for an interesting read. Excellent, fact-based theory. Well done!