I would like the choice please. I think all DK specs should be able to choose the play style. I honestly think all classes should have more of an array of weapon choices to choose from. Also more looks for our ghouls please.
18 Likes
I want to extend that and ask for Blood DPS
12 Likes
No thanks. There shouldn’t be any dual wield DK specs.
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But there has been…since the classes inception.
So at this point id say your opinion is barely an opinion and is bordering on just plain being wrong. Lol.
6 Likes
Honestly more and more it looks like the game ppl are looking to play is ESO just with a wow skin. Referring to that complete open ended ability to build any character any way you want. Sounds great on paper but they are diff games with different goals. Not saying im opposed to options in any way but character building works differently given the different systems at play in any given game.
4 Likes
If anything, I think dual wield fits UH a lot more than it fit frost.
Frost has been about a few abilities hitting hard from the beginning till they mutilated the spec into this bastardized version we have where passive damage deals most of our DPS. Meanwhile UH was always about lots of small damage sources, diseases, pets, etc.
In Wrath, the #1 OP build took advantage of all diseases + perma pet + DW. I dont know why they went the path they did, should have been Frost 2h and UH dw from the start. Its not like current UH even FEELS like you have a 2h, its like you are swinging a pool noodle…
14 Likes
Which build was this exactly?
This just isn’t a true statement. You can make it true by going out of your way to stack particular Corruptions, but that’s a very tilted view, and clearly not reflective of the spec itself. How much passive damage do we really have? Baseline we have: Frost Fever, Remorseless Winter, and auto-attacks; you can then opt into some passive damage with talents like Frozen Pulse, or Inexorable Assault, while also opting to make Remorseless Winter an interactive ability (and thus, active) with the Gathering Storm talent. Certainly most of our DPS in not passive by any stretch of the imagination.
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No. Quit trying to screw other specs. You already screwd frost. Be happy with that.
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You are confused. I am not talking about the number of abilities that are active vs passive, I am talking about damage breakdown. Obliterate, Frost Strike and Howling Blast are most of our button presses, yes, but they represent together a paltry % of our total damage done. Melee hits + Remorsless Winter + Frost Fever alone are responsible for anywhere between 40% and 60% of our DPS, depending on your setup. Add in Lethal Strikes, which everyone uses, and any of the popular corruption, or any of our passive damage talents, and yes, you can make that number even higher.
1 Like
That’s what I’m talking about as well. I listed those abilities because I assumed it was obvious that these things do not actually make up the majority of our damage. Your claim is still false unless you are specifically going out of your way to game such a result, which would largely have to be due to either Corruption stacking, or someone just not hitting buttons and playing wildly incorrectly.
This is just false. Optimal play is nowhere close to this 40-60% passive damage you’re trying to push, and that 40% doesn’t even fit your previous claim of passive being “most of our DPS.” You’re already half backtracking. The actual amount of passive damage we do as a spec is 20-30% depending on BoS or Icecap builds.
Icecap sees about 45% of its damage from those abilities you listed (OB+FS+HB), which is hardly “paltry.” Meanwhile the passive abilities you listed are more or less 30%. Cut out Remorseless Winter, because it’s not actually a passive ability when you take Gathering Storm and especially not with Icecap builds trying to extend it indefinitely with correct play, and you’re closer to 22%.
BoS builds only sees OB+FS+HB equating to ~25% of our damage, but that’s a given since BoS itself is such a large factor of that build. Toss that in and you’re likely looking at over 50% of your total damage. It’s “passive” abilities are also pretty close to 30% even with Remorseless Winter, and sub 20% without it (BoS also takes Gathering Storm).
You are wrong on every count here. Please, take some time to look at logs before you make wildly incorrect claims again. The core spec is not by any realistic claim mostly passive damage.
I see no point to the video you linked. I’m not watching a 50 minute video looking for some nugget of relevancy when the video itself says it’s about something entirely irrelevant.
Yeah the build they nerfed within a week of Obsidian Sanctum coming out lol.
2 Likes
I had so much fun for a week. I thought “I don’t like DWing for the most part, but UH feels good like this.”
3 Likes
The link I posted is already at the correct time marker but sure, suit yourself.
Im sorry but the only way you can back your own claim is by ignoring abilities, as per your own admission. Most people consider things like BoS and RW to be passive damage, as opposed to buttons like OB or FS. It does its damage while you do something else.
Thats why I talked about 40% to begin with: because of the way you phrased your response, you started by excluding any non-based passives, and so I had to adjust and only talk about baseline abilities. You may see it as "building to achieve that effect’’, but Azerites Traits/Essences and Corruption are a big part of our damage right now, and baseline for any competitive build. Same with many of our talents that add passive damage. Its not 40%, its 40% WITHOUT half the relevant factors.
1 Like
I apologise, I was opening it in a new window and not within your post. Didn’t realise that would cut out the timestamp.
That’s PvP. He’s only showcasing 15-ish seconds of play where Chill Streak’s impact is going to be naturally inflated. He’s cleaving three targets (yes, he’s hitting that third dummy with RW, HB, and FF). At best, he’s still trying to test a two target cleave situation which is very obviously going to boost passive cleave damage.
He set up a skewed situation that favors passive damage on the meters, he got exactly that, and then laments that his single target abilities didn’t do as much as his cleave damage. Queue the shock and awe. This is clearly not someone that people should be looking to for advice.
His take on Versatility being “physical centric,” and that it should “tilt the damage in Obliterate’s favor” is also just incredibly incorrect. That’s not how flat % bonuses work at all.
Only in a skewed setup that already favors this passive damage. Care to look at actual single target logs? They tell a drastically different story.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gVrntXzZKPc3DdWR#fight=14&type=damage-done&source=116
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yW3DR9AXYGqNJVma#fight=31&type=damage-done&source=19
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/h6XCgdb8PpDxaJqm#fight=47&type=damage-done&source=2
Abilities that you have to maintain, and play in a particular way to optimize are not passive. If someone considers them passive, then that person is wrong. There’s zero discussion or debate to be had on this point.
If you’re genuinely considering borrowed power systems that every class has as part of a spec specific problem, then I don’t even know what else to say to you. Like I said before, that’s clearly not reflective of the spec itself.
he’s gotta be talking about 32/39, you got howling blast from the frost tree as your FU rune spender, gargoyle, the perma ghoul pet, desecration, boneshield, and a couple other things im forgetting.
it was stupidly OP and came out of nowhere, it was nerfed in 3.0.8 and then hard broken in 3.1 iirc.
2h frost was only cool for 3.1. you got a sigil from 25 man xt-002 that boosted frost strike damage, and with a 2h you just chunked people down in a couple globals. that build was killed in 3.2 when they added threat of thassarian making frost the DW spec and nerfed the sigil to get everyone to use the new one for the patch.
2 Likes
In other words we are disagreeing on the premise, not the conclusion.
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Even if they need to be maintained by pressing OTHER buttons, mechanics such as RW or BoS are experienced vastly differently than direct damage tools. I think the terminology is maybe where we are not seeing eye to eye. To you, because they require key presses to maintain, they are not passive. But the damage does not come from the keys you are pressing. It comes from another source that just happens to stay active when you use these abilities. To a lot of players, this makes the damage at the very least feel passive. Deep Wounds for Warriors is a good example of this. You can declare that there is no debate to be had all you want, it doesnt make it true.
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Yes, I consider borrowed power systems to be a part of the problem. It accentuates a specific tendency towards damage sources other than the abilities you press. Its synergical effect does not affect all specs equally: for some, its a bit of extra passive damage on top of a direct damage toolkit. Ret pallies, for example, remain decidedly NOT geared towards passive damage, despite those systems. But for specs that already display this tendency, it becomes a compounded issue.
I knew I read about garg and HB being 21 point talents and that build, but when people talked about it 2h was still better with it. It’s pretty clear the death knight was still in development because scourge Strike went through a lot of changes, talents being moved around, abilities being removed, new ones added in.
I dont remember the exact point spread, that patch was a LOooOooOng time ago, but yeah that other guy had it right, it was the frost/unholy combo that essentially went for garg + perma pet then dipped into frost. You had all the UH goodies, and then used mostly Icy Touch and HB to DPS and DW for the higher white damage.
Play something else OP.