Dual spec didn’t stop lack of tanks in original tbc.
Hero class DKs (yes they were treated as a hero class all through wrath) didn’t solve tank shortage of wrath.
All tank made OP in wrath/cata/mists didn’t solve tank shortage.
Retail is getting there on what it takes to not have a tank shortage imo. I have gotten the group extra loot satchel as a dps. Took time and a lot of changes to get to that point. Till then roll a tank if you want to tank.
Between retail and tbc I have seven tanks. Biggest problem to the tank “shortage” is the people who want to complain and be catered to.
All you do is pedantically pick at words. You aren’t even interested in having a good faith discussion on the negative aspects of adding dual spec. You’re just in here to be a pedant and overly disambiguate posts to your hearts content as if it accomplishes making any kind of semblance of a good point.
I understand your logic. Yes duel spec would be nice. But blizz is not going to create a system for it that wasnt in the game in bc. That requires blizz to spend dev time to program it in or grab the code from wrath and try to patch it together. The money increase from a few more subs doesn’t justify the cost of putting it in sadly. Or they would of already done it after 10,000 posts about it.
That’s bad faith. You aren’t even replying to what he said, you just see “look retail” and respond “dual spec isn’t in retail”
Now even that small quote is bad faith in itself. Retail has a more convenient system than dual spec, so when people say, you can go to retail if you want this thing, the premise is that if you want convenient spec changing, retail has that.
Saying that retail doesn’t have dual spec… is a point made in bad faith. I truly believe you understand that when people say go play retail, they are not saying retail has dual spec. I believe you actually understand that they mean retail has the conveniences you are asking for, therefor go play that.
And since I believe you actually understand what they mean, you are making a point in bad faith.
If anything, you are the bad faith actor because you’re engaging in exactly what you’re accusing me of doing. I tell you that you make a baseless assertion and you move straight into asking me if I know what that even means.
As if anyone is going to say, “Well, that’s obviously a fair question. Naturally I didn’t consider what words meant when I used them.”
There is no evidence. There’s your opinion about what happened and other players opinion about what happened. Actual historians can cite data to back up their version. None of us can. It’s astonishing that you can’t comprehend that. There’s no way you work for the DHS or our government is in much sorrier shape than I thought.
So you’re gonna respond to my explanation of why I think you’re acting in bad faith, by claiming that I don’t back up what I’m saying?
This isn’t bad faith. This was me starting to believe that you are less intelligent than you think you are. So In wanted to check if you knew what I was talking about.
I made my case for why i think you’re in bad faith. You just say
This just in guys, history isn’t evidence for anything!
We can look at the history book of wow. Patch notes, Blue posts, exc. And what do we see? Multiple attempts of blizzard to fix the tank shortage. And those attempts came after dual spec. So clearly dual spec didn’t fix the problem.
As a holy paladin with a full prot set (thats actually better then my current holy gear because I leveled 60-70 by tanking dungeons) I wouldn’t mind a dual spec option, I already spend about 100-150g a day on respecs (sometimes guildies or friends spot the cost) but I would def love to be able to tank whenever I want as I play holy for PvP. That said I also don’t mind the constant spending of gold to respec because as I stated before it’s not always on me to pay the respec, depends on how badly a tank is needed. Point being is dual spec would def add at least one more full time PvE tank by allowing me to instantly switch, grab my gear out of bank, and off I go to whatever dungeon/raid I’m doing while also allowing me to PvE way way more often then what I do now.
Because questing and pvp wasn’t fun in a resto druid spec I decided to spec feral in Vanllla and BC. I didn’t start to heal with my druid until dual spec was added. I’m doing the same thing in classic. Many others have posted the same here. There would be some with dps specs who would dual spec to tank and heal if it was added.
Historians require evidence to back up their claims. That’s why every reputable history text has numerous footnotes to back up every one of their claims. Even as weak a source as wikipedia requires every claim to be footnoted. You have no evidence to back up your claims. There is not a single piece of evidence that supports the claim that dual spec didn’t increase the number of players tanking and healing. They’re not “history” they’re only your opinions.
Look at blue posts and patch notes for the following.
Gear changing stats with player spec.
Every new class added since vanilla has a tank spec.
The loot boxes for lfd queue. (happy I didn’t short type it…)
The tri spec tale t change the it what dual spec evolved into.
The threat changes to make threat easier to get.
The tanking overhaul that attempted to make tanking more fun.
Exc.
The list goes on, just because I’m not a certified historian doesn’t mean I can’t research and learn things from the past. And the thing I learned is blizzard made MANY attempts to fix the tank shortage. And there is still a shortage in retail even with all of those changes.
Dude.
The claim from him is that dual spec does not solve the tank shortage, nor does it have a significant change to the amount of tanks.
The evidence he’s provided is the patch notes in the game that state various systems implemented to improve the number of tanks in game.
Now if you want him to link each set of patch notes to back that up, say so, but otherwise, all you are doing is making a false comparison to historians.
If dual spec had a decent effect on the number of tanks, why would the devs continue to make further changes after the fact? Bonus satchels, pruning of tank abilities (it was stated in patch notes that they wanted to make tanking easier, to make it more accessible.) Massive threat changes almost every xpac.
To clarify. at this point, you have to either admit that the listed additions are proof that there was still a significant tank shortage that the devs were trying to fix,
OR
provide some reasonable viewpoint as to why the listed changes (redhead included) don’t point to the continued lack of tanks.
What was the average wait time for dps looking for a dungeon group in BC?
What was the average wait time for dps looking for a dungeon group after dual spec was added?
What is the average wait time for dps looking for a dungeon group in Shadow Lands?
Did adding dual spec decrease the wait time for dps looking for a dungeon group?
Those are the questions that a reputable historian would ask and research. Please cite the data you use to answer those questions. If you can’t then any answer you come up with is just your personal opinion and not historical fact.