The term “QoL change” gets bandied around a lot. But I don’t think it applies. Dual Spec, and many of the changes being compared with it are not QoL changes. They impact on game play. They change the way people functionally interact with the game content. Yes DS improves QoL but it does a lot more than that.
Calling it purely QoL is disingenuous. Imagine the outcry if they made dual spec a cash shop feature? Pay to win?
You don’t have to argue that its just QoL either. Now here did blizzard say they will only do QoL changes. In fact most of the changes so far have been to add constraints and remove convenience - i.e. starting arena rating at 0 rather than 1500, and making some gear require rating. Removing World buffs. The only time they “added convenience” that I can see is with same faction BGs. Going on current form you’re just as likely to get a price hike in respeccing as you are to get Dual Spec.
There’s no evidence that I can see that Blizzard are predisposed to QoL changes. Same faction BGs is the only current clear case of it I can think of.
I have an idea, everyone gets free dual spec but only one person can use it per minute.
So if you try to change spec and you are 60th in queue to use it you have to wait 1 hour then your spec will change after that hour. If you leave the main city though you leave the queue and have to start over.
Since you want to compare playing the game to being in a line, you can have dual spec in a line. You can’t leave town, you have to stay logged in, and if you do anything you lose your spot in line.
Horde having 30 minute to an hour queues was very much a thing back in tbc and wrath. Source: I had horde characters on a BG9 server (the biggest battlegroup) back then. As I think redhead pointed out, it was perhaps less to do with population imbalance (although my server was always 60-40 horde), and more to do with alliance just not queueing up.
Either way, working as intended, 30 minute queues. My alliance queues were always near instant. I’m sorry, but if you were horde and ally weren’t queueing, blizzard werent about to break the lore and let you queue into horde players.
I’m not referring to classic. I am referring to the original tbc, wotlk, and Cata, all of which had one faction that had SIGNIFICANTLY longer queue times than the other faction.
I was playing back then and changed factions several times to benefit from the shorter queues. If you have regularly pvp’ed and done bg’s since original tbc you know that this has always been part of the game until they introduced mercenary mode in retail and the same faction bg’s in tbc classic.
I’ve recently come to the conclusion that we need these #nochanges shills posting their drivel here, as it continuously bumps this thread and keeps it orange. This is vastly increasing the odds the development team pays it some attention. Bravo boys/girls!
So I just outlined a change that I find acceptable - a compromise, that fits what you want as gold is not the issue for you. And your reply is to call me a #nochange shill.
Okay, thanks for nailing your colours to the mast. You too have no interest in productive discussion or compromise. Why don’t you just use the suggestions email to Blizzard rather than pretend to engage on a “Discussion” forum?
You want what you want and you have no room to budge on any count - what’s to discuss?
This is a dumb argument for not having duel spec, I want to be able to continue playing my main doing both pve and pvp but spending 50g for each respec and having to respec is a hassle.
You need to slow down. Let’s get the systems in place first (coding/labor), then talk about the cost. I don’t see any winning argument complaining that something is expensive when you can farm the gold with a couple dailies.
Getting the in game profiles should be the priority.
I’ll concede to that. And as I’ve stated several times - I actually agree with that perspective. However, I still contend that it means the BG queues were inadvertently inconvenient as opposed to intentionally inconvenient. So the use case for introducing a change is still different.
As above, as you and Egwyn are seemingly on the same page.
Except that either way blizzard deemed that an hour plus wait before you could do what you wanted in TBC Classic was not acceptable.
And if you’re going to make the argument that player behavior was different in TBC Classic which lead to those BG queues and that’s the justification, the same could easily be said about how players are approaching spec which increases the value of adding it now.
On one level there is a clear distinction between something inadvertently onerous vs an intended constraint or hurdle. This distinction I agree with and I think it’s important.
However, you yourself claimed that player fixable problems should be fixed by players (again a sentiment I tend to agree with) - the community. The BG queue issue is precisely that - a player fixable problem.
There is a grey area here though (which Egwyn rightly points out by challenging your claim), is between how much player generated problems can be tolerated for the sake of fluid gameplay and overall game satisfaction. I don’t think there is a clear cut formula for that. There’s room for debate there. There is a point where dev intervention into “player made” problems can be justified.
I personally don’t think lack of Dual spec is causing the behavioural issues people are claiming though - not at the scale they suggest - and that to me is key to the argument against adding it. There are other more obvious reasons for people raid logging and such and it’s not clear to me that adding dual spec won’t even exacerbate those issues.
By the way - this is the kind of discussion I genuinely enjoy - different views strongly held and people presenting their case in good faith. Thanks guys (Horace and Egwyn).
HvH BGs arent proof of anything as far as dual specs go. Theyve done things to incentivize the alliance side of pvp as well but that never gets brought up. Ultimately tho, they cant make everyone pvp or start telling some people where to go or play.
And why should they? The players are their own worst enemy and it shows.
Eugh, I know. I don’t even like same faction BGs - my most popular thread was precisely opposing then when they were announced.
Likewise, and credit to Egwyn and yourself that I do acknowledge this probably does fall more into a grey area and there are more similarities between BG queues and Dual Spec than I originally anticipated.
I still personally disagree that there is a sufficient use case for Dual Spec, but I suppose you’re right that that threshold is subjective. What do I know? I’m just some gnome with a hat.