still doesnt realize and just insults its way through another post…
classic aloe vera
still doesnt realize and just insults its way through another post…
classic aloe vera
50g per respec every day is like asking for people to buy gold. Meanwhile 1000g for dual spec can at least allow people to save up gold to spend once, and save up other golds to pay for gears/enchants/gems. inb4 WowToken TBC soon to fight gold farmers.
There are inherent risks in any change. The onus to prove otherwise is incumbent on the person proposing change.
How am I to point out specifically what the impacts will be when my point is that you can’t fully know the impacts?
Bigger changes have bigger risks. If you propose a change you need to justify it and quantify those risks.
The fact that you and your llk are claiming there is no risk tells me that you’re not in the best place to make such decisions. Hopefully those that are best place do a proper analysis of game balance impacts and risks.
It’s the caveat Blizzard put on changes they will make. Vague as it is.
If you give players a more convenient option they will take it.
Constraints are fundamental to games and the fun and length of play time derived are a function of frustration vs reward. Self imposed constraints don’t work in this regard. People play within and try to find advantages within externally imposed constraints - that’s what gaming fundamentally is, that’s the challenge.
You remove the frustration you devalue the reward. A lot of successful games are designed around this principle, take Dark souls, imagine removing the inconvenience of having to reach you last bloodstain to rez? It’s just an option change, people could still do it if they want? That would make the game far more accessible and less frustrating … And less fun.
In making things cheaper and easier you also make the content cycle faster and the time to get bored faster.
I sometimes feel like people think the objective of a game is to provide as much convenience as possible, however, that actually kills a game to me. Many of us came back to TBC and Classic because it is frustrating and not in spite of that. When you turn it into a convenient loot hub you essentially change the nature of the game.
With this you are actually saying the reward is not to be frustrated?!
Sounds stupid to me!!
The reward for playing a game should always be to have a good time where you enjoy yourself…!
This is intellectually dishonest and you know it.
Describe the negative impact it had in Wrath. Surely there must have been one if there would be one in TBC.
The reward is for having persevered and overcome the frustration.
In modern Wow there’s a split between RP and Encounter game play. RP elements (like talents) are convenient and mostly cosmetic. While the frustration is in the encounters and the time to kill them, button mashing, skipping, and dodging mechanics.
In TBC the RP elements were as much a part of gameplay as encounters, in Vanilla you could argue the RP elements were more a challenge than the encounters.
Very different game design ethos. Yet here we are trying to apply the modern wow game design ethos to the older game. Sure we can do it but why do it? Why not just play the game that more completely conforms to your gaming preference?
Retail wow still has all the same TBC content but with all the modern conveniences? Why not choose to play that?
I think it’s ironic that you describe my view as intellectually dishonest when you then come out with this:
I mean that’s not a given at all. WoTLK was a different game. It had sweeping changes to class design and game ethos.
Ghost Crawler claimed they wanted to release Dual spec about halfway through TBC but they held off. Why? I recall at the time they basically said it would be too hard and that they chose to implement the more fun iteration of Dual spec which required class design changes that were going to be implemented in WoTLK.
WoTLK is not TBC.
I get there are a lot of people who are in TBC simply as a stepping stone to their preferred iteration of the game - WoTLK. However, some of us actually liked TBC. Wait your turn. If your argument is essentially that WoTLK was a better game, then go play New World until Wrath comes out again.
Ooooh, oh, poor princess! I didn’t know that not being able to dual spec made you suffer! My apologies! Please Blizz, immediately put in dual spec so the little princesses and soy drinkers of this world can stop suffering in silence! Well, not really in silence, we do have to listen to them whine excessively about changing the game so they can actually cope, but you know what I mean.
At least learn how to pour my Earl Grey tea and wax off my glass slippers properly.
I suggest making a post on Twitter about how much of a victim you are and then post cat pictures.
I think we named enough reasons why! You can disagree, but “It has been that way …” is NEVER a solid argument. Never has been and never will be.
Change this thing to something else that we already have but don’t use - is also not a solid argument.
There is a game that exists with all the content that TBC classic has that you can play if you wish to that has all the features you want already. Yet you don’t play it … why?
Asking for a thing to be changed into something else is almost like you don’t actually like that thing? Then don’t play it. The thing you like is coming - probably in a year or two - come back when it arrives, or level up in Retail and hang around the TBC zone.
Yep, I love watching the suffering of others! In fact indulging our sadistic desires for depriving others of their enjoyment is entirely the basis for why we might opposed such universally benevolent features as Dual spec. /sarcasm. Paleeeease.
By removing a grind out of the game and lessening the impact of RP choices such as character specialisation. RP being a core part of the TBC game.
None of those “reasons” amount to anything more than it is inconvenient. Additionally all of them are arguably addressed by a less drastic change - lowered respec costs.
What grind? the grind for 50g?
If RP is such a core part of TBC why are there so few RP servers and why is RP participation on those servers so low? If even the RP servers aren’t doing RP how can you possibly even claim that it is a “core” part of the game? Certainly the player base doesn’t feel that way so why exactly do you think you speak on behalf of the majority of players who do not engage in any sort of RP?
Hell I’m in the largest guild on the largest RP server and I don’t think I’ve seen a single person engage in any role playing.
The cost of respec in TBC means absolutely nothing, 50g a day is negligible when you can literally do any activity for 20min and make 50g, compare that to Vanilla.
Again, please explain to me how having a player travel to a class trainer in order to respec improves the game for you? You have the option of not doing it so any RP argument begs the question, why don’t you RP you don’t have dual spec?
How does inconveniencing other players improve the game for you?
You make some pretty huge claims with absolutely nothing to back them up.
Explain in what ways it was different in the context of dual spec. Vague statements are not arguments they just show you aren’t capable of providing an answer.
My argument is that you can’t articulate a single coherent reason for not having dual spec in TBC and you continue to prove that point.
Appealing to emotion, sentimentality, the nebulous “spirit” of the game, none of these prove anything, they are all incredibly personal and I’m living proof that not everyone feels the same way you do about game.
It doesn’t impact Role Playing, anyone making this claim obviously has never done any actual RP outside of harassing female characters in Goldshire.
But somehow you need to claim that the act of making a player travel to a class trainer brings enjoyment and added depth to the game but are completely unable to articulate how.
Have you never ordered a hamburger with a different topping than someone else? Do you not like hamburgers?
Do you see how stupid you sound?
People are asking for different condiments for their burger and you’re telling them they must not like burgers if they don’t eat it exactly how it was prepared.
I have, many times over.
The classes were rebalanced. There’s a lot of info on line about this and the class rebalance for wrath of the lich king. More abilities such as buffs and interrupts were made baseline and given to multiple classes to facilitate the “bring the player not the class”. People keep repeating this but you don’t hear it because you don’t want to.
You keep telling me I’m being vague and not backing up my argument and yet none of you can answer my simple question:
If Bliz wanted to release TBC earlier why didn’t they?
At any rate, your position is that unless we can quantify everything that could possibly go wrong with the change and prove it beyond doubt its harmless. In other words, give it a whirl, what could possibly go wrong? Followed up by “lala not hearing anything” whenever anyone attempts to tell you what might possibly go wrong.
I’m glad you don’t manage risk or design games is all I can say