They don’t use identical gear that all the warrior tanks want though.
I’m not debating that they have more health. A warrior will take less damage than a druid in full resistance gear due to defensive stance, that is a fact. The Druid will have more health, that is a fact. But if the warrior has enough health to deal with damage spikes, it far more beneficial to have more damage reduction than more health. Given that 99% of raids go with the warrior, I would say that they feel the warrior has enough health to deal with the damage spikes.
Read what I said again carefully, I said effective hp for a reason.
I don’t care if I’m not a MT. I just like raiding and the good of the group is more important. I will have a Prot Pally. I will have a Bear. I’ve always preferred to OT in raids. If I end up being MT, so be it. MT, OT, buffbot, corpse in corner because PewPewCritCritCritCrit/deaddps… raiding is raiding.
Regardless of how it plays out:
I have no issues spending all of classic as a dungeon runner and occasional OT on my pally/druid… at least I’m playing.
that’s an entirely false statement - Taladril and Holyfrog farm maybe 5-8 MCPs per raid at most - they don’t use them on trash or only for select threat intensive boss fights like Thaddius or Vael
never mind the fact that Druids can prowl to the Crowd Pummeler boss in Gnomer in about 3 mins flat…
I read what you said, I know what effective health pools are. It doesn’t change the fact that all you need is enough health to deal with damage spikes because you will be constantly healed. Honestly the difference wont be that big anyways. Yes, the druid has higher HP and a higher effective health pool. But even though the warrior has less health, he is taking less damage. He might have less effective health, but it is still enough to deal with the spikes. So now it comes down to how much damage has to be healed over the X minutes that you stand in front of the boss taking damage.
N…no… effective HP takes into account damage reduction, avoidance, and actual health pools.
On a resistance fight where neither tank is def capped, a bear druid will take less damage. Being armor capped is > defensive stance on those particular fights. You are right that the difference generally isn’t large enough to warrant spending resources on a bear druid, in a min/max scenario though.
Just so I can clarify, a warrior will take less magical damage, which makes you think that they are better for a resistance fight and at face value you’d believe that, but a huge threat on a resistance fight is also the sheer pummeling you take in physical damage, and the amount that a bear druid can reduce that by is greater than a warrior. Look at huhu as a good example.
And the cd on druid… oh wait
You’re lets see…
38 minutes late on that joke.
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So i am. Lol
And it shows. I can’t find a raid with Holyfrog. I found some with Taladril, though he doesn’t seem to be tanking, just riding the bottom of the damage meters.
Holyfrog is his PALADIN’s toon name lol…
Gammarays is his Druid - https://legacyplayers.com/Armory/?charid=965643
Taladril hasn’t played lightshope since Anathema/Lightbringer died iirc anyway which was literally a year ago now
That explains it, was wondering why a paladin tank would be farming MCP, figured maybe it was a spelingbee thing.
I didn’t dig too hard for the druid though, just looked at the most recent raids listed on their guilds page. He took some damage somewhere, but it wasn’t thaddius. Didn’t even take damage on patchwork. I gave up before looking all the way through. Overall his damage seemed to be on par with the prot warriors.
Taladril is the Bear Tank GOD - for real - he tanks Thaddius like a MF - no one can touch his threat output
anywho while these videos don’t show either Taladril or Holyfrog/Gammarays it gives you an idea of what Feral Druids and dual-wield Fury Tanks can do in end game:
Not seeing it. I found Garthonnix tanking, Taladril seems to just be hanging out on the bottom half of the damage charts, although he is doing about 20% more damage than the tank.
I’ll buy in to the pserver meta when it successfully transfers over to Classic. I still think they are wrong on debuffs leading to higher than normal damage in raids. I also think that Blizzlike Black Lotus spawns are going to damper on these guilds that have been used to a nearly unlimited supply of them and being able to fully flask every raid.
Need to really refute this. Pally tanking has never been explored with any depth back in vanilla. There have been quite a few things to come to light since then due to private server digging. There have apparently been the majority of the existence of private servers where paladins were in a broken (weakened) state simply because it was low priority and no one cared. So, making a statement like this is truly ignorant.
First, if you are being one shot as a tank it has to do with your HP, not immunity to crits and cb (shield block doesn’t even confer 100% immunity all the time). Second, bears get maxed out armor from the start and warriors will be having a tough time even by the end of bwl.
Third, paladins should be crit immune when appropriate and as for cb problems it only affects autos and only 15% of those autos will be a cb doing only 50% more damage (only 7.5% more damage overall).
Fourth, you don’t have to field a tank when they are up against their achilles.
Gear is not a limitation, just a handicap for people who could care less about steamrolling the game. There are ways to get a paladin tank to spam all their tanking abilities indefinitely for fights. Taunt is hardly used as the handful of fights that need it are ones where they aren’t immune by design. Not saying everyone should bring paladins to tank, just that they could if they wanted (gamers like challenges, who knew?).
Until warriors reach the armor cap, druids are very similar in overall mitigation. Should the warrior forgo a shield for more threat, the druid is probably the better option anyway.
So the problem is yeah druids might tank pure damage soak fights a little better, but they do much worse on other fights. And given the relative rarity of those kind of fights you have a druid tank that’s a little better sometimes but not enough that you can’t get a warrior tanking those fights and then so bad at other kinds of encounters that warrior is just flat out superior.
Druids also have significant gearing issues up until AQ for ferals that warriors don’t have.
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Basically, yes. I said a condensed version of that earlier. While druids can fill very niche fights and do marginally better, why bother when a warrior can handle it and every other fight just fine.
But the answer to the question of “can druids raid tank” is most definitely yes with a couple **
Who are you saying doesn’t have taunt? Paladins are the only “tank” class without a taunt.
They can just takes more.
As in knowledge, skill, gear, right professions, and more.
As a warrior it would just be easier to jump to tanking/faster/less requirements.