(BETA) Dragonflight Priest Talent Tree Feedback Thread

A few simple tweaks to make idol of ysharaaj a bit more exciting.

  1. Switch the insanity gen to proc on healthy targets. This lets us kickstart our first spender when initiating an encounter.

  2. Switch the 15% damage buff to stunned. This lets us set up burst on a kill target.

  3. Switch the 5% damage increase to feared. This weakens the power of the unbreakable fear effect.

  4. Add an extra state during execute that increases non-periodic damage by 20% and grants dark angel wings, then remove dark Ascension. We don’t need two 1 minute buff cooldowns.

Looks like in 2 weeks the PTR patch is going live. Don’t see them doing much more class tuning in between now and then. Feels like everything’s being rushed out the door.

Wouldn’t be surprised if most of the class tuning occurs after the patch…

Looks to be yet another expansion that I’ll have to wait to buy until it’s finished after release.

What sort of tuning are you hoping for or think that Priest is in dire need of (other than Shadow stuff)?

I can’t give an answer about tuning because I’m not actively raid and M+ testing on the beta all 3 specs. Also, addons weren’t really working on the beta either.

Just felt like they should have given it an extra month or so to go over classes instead of just rushing the expansion out the door.

2 Likes

Cross-posting this here as I think it answers most of the community concerns with shadow and I hope the devs see it.

a kick to put us on equal terms with everyone else.

1 Like

See i dont feel that. I dont feel they are rushing it out the door. They are never going to have every spec ready to go come launch day. Just wont happen and once pre patch hits and they can see how everyone plays their toons there will be even more fixes. i remember holy nova for disc being changed pre patch from memory. Was op in wod/legion or legion/bfa, cant remember.

I think the simplicity of this xpac works in their favor and everything ive read said holy is in a better spot then disc atm so your world is all good :slight_smile:

1 Like

It’s definitely not in raid currently. In dungeons I feel like both are pretty close but Holy’s easier so people will probably play it.

I don’t disagree that the way this xpac was made it should give them room to do more iterative balancing. The problem with that idea is that Blizzard has never balanced like that in their history - so the only reason to believe they’d do so now is specifically because it’s easier. I just don’t think I buy that.

Personally, I think they did get rushed out the door. There’s merit to ‘it’ll never be completely perfect, so at some point we have to decide to ship.’ But we’re talking about an expansion where more than one class got completely reworked just a week before their tuning (and one spec got a full rework AFTER that), and since then they’ve done very little balance tuning towards those specs.

Shadow’s idols have had tuning problems since their inception, and even post-shadow tree shuffling they’ve had nearly 0 tuning except for Yogg Saron. The fact the latest balance patch only had one change for priest (and it was a VERY strange one at that) feels like they’ve decided this is the tuning for pre-patch. That leaves a lot to be desired, even for Disc which I’d say is coming out of it strong. In no way are our talents anywhere near well-tuned. We have an entire section of our tree that is totally dead and would never be considered by anyone that knows anything about the spec. And we’re one of the better ones. That seems like a big problem to be shipping with.

3 Likes

Yeah, this is a fairly critical shortcoming of Disc. Disc will play fairly well, but it will have very little build diversity because one branch is just dead.

At least we can swap between Disc and Holy depending on the fight/dungeon/etc.

1 Like

Full doom. It looks like Dargonflight will ship with shadow priest in a janky haphazardly assembled incomplete mess. I probably would have put up with it if I were able to cast spectral guise. As it is now, I am not going to be playing Dragonflight. See you when the devs have been given the necessary time to do their jobs.

3 Likes

to be honest, i feel like a lot of classes are getting similar treatment.
I feel even worse for druids / boomkin…

Idk man.
Talent tree was a huge step forwards.
Reworks / class design feels super incomplete still. Wish they would of just build it from scratched or at least given them way way more time than this.

oh well, another OW2 i guess.

1 Like

So regarding the multi length Vampiric Embrace conversation over on the Priest Beta feedback thread, I figure I would add my opinion on the matter. I cant do it there because no beta access so w/e lol.

First, lets consider the way Vampiric Embrace is currently handled in that it is currently broken up into 2 talents that make it as powerful as it can be…

  • Vampiric Embrace
  • San’layn

Now knowing how the talent system works and the several different points and perspectives from differing aspects of gameplay, the base version of Vampiric Embrace should basically remain the same functionality in that your single target shadow spells grant health based on damage done.

San’layn however should not just increase the amount of healing received via damage and reduce the cooldown, it should change/enhance what Vampiric Embrace does mechanically. In addition, take Sanguine Teachings in name only and add that as a choice talent with San’layn.

Once that has been done, then just define what San’layn and Sanguine Teachings will do mechanically speaking.

Here are some ideas…

  • San’layn
    Your Single Target Shadow Spells heal an additional XX% of the damage they deal while Vampiric Embrace is active. Your damage over time abilities passively heal for 25% of the damage done.

  • Sanguine Teachings
    While Vampiric Embrace is active, you and your allies within 40 yards gain 15% leech and all your Shadow Spells are affected by Vampiric Embrace.

So basically the main goals are as follows…

  • AOE Shadow spells benefit from Vampiric Embrace (so all Shadow spells will benefit from Vampiric Embrace).
  • Leech effect buff granted to you and your allies
  • Passive healing via damage without Vampiric Embrace active.

Change the way they work and the numbers used as needed but the idea is to use a choice talent to modify how Vampiric Embraces work at base level to better suite the type of content and situation you are in.

7 Likes

It’s too late aneurysm. Shadow is dysfunctional for yet another expansion.

4 Likes

Boomkin tree is no where near as bad a state as shadow is.

Druid had a similar misfortune as priest as their dev either quit or was gone a majority of the development phase.

Still I think a lot of issues with tree’s like boomkin can be solved with tuning. This is absolutely not the case with shadow because their tree is full of a bunch of frankensteined ideas from past xpacs that do not work with each other.

11 Likes

naw man.

PVP wise, its dumpster compared to Shadow. IDK about shadow PVE, but my outlook is pvp only.

In pvp, At least shadow can provide more reliable CC, better heals and defense without the massive GCD blocks.
Most of my power isnt locked on one ability as well.

After the constant nerfs to druids.
I pretty much just let them go. Feels awful t o use in pvp. Im sure pve is diff story.

Druids are stuck in this outdated format.
Tanks got segregated into its own spec.
So now cuze of this, bear form never feels good to be forcecd into as a defensive option. All the GCDS to do so its worht while.

Mobility – who doesn’t have this these days? Especially so many classes that can be as mobile as you, without GCD block and able to DPS while doing so. Meanwhile im in cat unable to do anything lol.

Druid design in a PVP outlook is horrid. And it will remain this way it seems because it doesnt impact PVE gameplay so w.e

Shadow in PvE kinda sits between “Slightly worse than SL” and “Unimaginably poorly thought out”. The spec is in a really bad place, especially in dungeons which blizzard said was one of the primary areas they wanted to improve gameplay, Shadow’s AoE in Dragonflight is even more of a mess than it was in Shadowlands.

To be frank, a dps spec doesn’t even need a coherent working rotation to be good in PvP damage wise. It just needs buttons that hit hard on their own.

8 Likes

yah thats why shadow is working well in pvp so far. Lots of insta spells, both offensive and defensive and they do dmg. Thank god at least

Dont jinx plox haha.

as for PVE, yah, im too ignorant in this area to comment. But i can see how the current design can leave a lot of issues for it. Thanks for sharing me the PVE side of things, i appreciate it.

I really wish DF would of have in depths class reworks, but i guess we gotta wait for one more expansion, maybe lol. Just one more. Then one more again.

1 Like

With these latest changes to Shadow, it is clear the devs have no desire to make the Shadow spec that players are asking for. Through hours of browsing this forum, the beta feedback thread, and the shadow discord I think I have developed an understanding of what Shadow players want from the spec.

Shadow has a few fundamental aspects that define its gameplay and thematic style.

  1. Shadowy Apparitions
  2. DoT spells
  3. Short cooldown burst nukes
  4. Execute damage

There are two main types of Shadow players invested in the class.

  1. Post-Legion voidform fans
  2. MoP enjoyers

Previous iterations of Shadow have had some pain points which have been identified by the players. In Legion, the delayed damage of voidform made the spec unenjoyable in any shorter form of content. In Shadowlands, the AoE rotation was extremely unsatisfying to play. In previous version of Shadow, the AoE was almost non-existent or consisted of tab DoT application.

With this understanding, the design of Shadow moving into Dragonflight should have been quite simple. We maintain the theme of the spec while developing options for Voidform fans and the priests from prior to the Legion rework. Additionally, we develop a fun and capable AoE rotation. The priest players are satisfied: job done!

I have here attempted to lay out a blueprint for a spec design that would have been satisfying for Shadow players in Dragonflight. This is my last post of this type, as my sub has already been cancelled and I will disappear with the arrival of Halloween.

On to the tree.

<>
Redundant or Unnecesary Pruned Abilities

  1. Mind Spike
  2. Dark Ascension
  3. Mind Sear
  4. Dark Void

<>
Tier 1
Devouring Plague

  1. Damage tuned such that its initial hit is our strongest single hit. It deals the same damage over its 6 second DoT. It does not stack damage.

Dispersion - Shadowy Apparitions - Silence

  1. Shadowy Apparitions now also spawn from Shadow Word: Death. Shadowy Apparitions are still doubled on crit.

Intangibility/Mental Fortitude - Coalescing Shadows - Last Word/Psychic Horror

  1. Coalescing Shadows now empower the initial hit of Devouring Plague and no other spell.

Misery/Harnessed Shadows - Void Apparitions - Shadowform/Void Eruption

  1. Misery is no longer the optimal talent in all situations as it has been placed against a single target damage increase as a choice. Shadow Word: Pain is no longer an unnecesary button as all builds will not take Misery. Dark Void has redundant functionality with Shadow Crash and so it has been removed.

  2. Void Apparitions cause Shadowy Apparitions to explode for AoE damage when the strike a target affected by Devouring Plague. Devouring Plague is the AoE spender and scaling of exploding ghosts is kept under control. Mind Sear is unnecessary as the ghost explosion can be tuned independently of Shadowy Apparitions damage. There is also a gameplay transformation, as the player will want to spawn as many ghosts as possible during Devouring Plague windows.

  3. Void Eruption requires 60 insanity to cast and causes the player to enter a legion-style voidform with increasing insanity drain and rapidly stacking haste. It is a choice against Shadowform which provides a passive buff to all damage to fill in the weaknesses of Voidform in shorter encounters. This is the choice node that satisfies legion shadow fans and MoP shadow fans. Voidform is tuned to provide more damage than Shadowform in longer encounters where maximal extensions of the buff are possible. Since Devouring Plague is at odds with Voidform extension, Devouring Plague transforms during Voidform. It gains a cooldown and generates some insanity when cast.

<>
Tier 2

Shadow Crash - Mental Decay - Shadowy Insight - Unfurling Darkness - Void Bolt

  1. Shadow Crash has a 45 second cooldown and applies Vampiric Touch to 10 targets by default. Its cooldown can be reduced in AoE situations via an augmenting talent.
  2. Mental Decay has been changed to proc DoT extension from Shadowy Apparition damage to layer on extra Apparition synergy as they are core to the spec. Mental Decay also causes Apparitions to generate insanity.
  3. Shadowy Insight is now a flat percentage chance to proc to scale up procs in AoE so that the pace of the spec feels faster.
  4. Unfurling Darkness has been placed out of the way while still being easily accessible for PvP players.
  5. Void Bolt replaces Mind Spike as it serves the same function and doesn’t feel like cheap nostalgia bait. Void Bolt has a different function depending on whether the player selected Shadowform or Void Eruption. If Void Eruption was selected, Void Bolt replaces Void Eruption during voidform; it generates insanity and has a 7.5 second cooldown. If the player has selected Shadowform, Void Bolt is an instant with no cooldown that costs X insanity to cast. The confusion around fillers is gone and the talent is useable as an excess insanity dump in Shadowform given that Devouring Plague no longer stacks damage.

Psychic Link - Nightmare Genesis - Shadowy Recall - Crown of Shadows - Puppet Master - Surge of Darkness - Mind Melt

  1. Nightmare Genesis is a new talent that causes Shadowy Apparitions to reduce the cooldown of Shadow Crash whenever they deal damage. This adds a nice positive feedback loop to long AoE fights where you are spawning apparitions to hasten Shadow Crash. It also provides the necessary CD reduction to ensure Shadow Crash is available every pack in M+.
  2. Shadowy Recall is implemented in place of Dark Evangelism. Shadowy Recall is the old MoP mastery which provides a chance for Shadow Word: Pain and Vampiric Touch to deal damage twice whenever they tick. Dark Evangelism is unexciting while also being tedious. Shadowy Recall is unexciting, but at least its not tedious and it provides an increased proc chance to the flat percentage procs which trigger off of DoT damage.
  3. Crown of Shadows is a variation on the Shadowlands tier set. It provides a high chance to generate a Shadowy Insight proc whenever a Coalescing Shadow is consumed while casting Devouring Plague.
  4. Surge of Darkness augments Void Bolt in different ways depending on whether the player selected Shadowform or Voidform. In Shadowform, it gives Vampiric Touch and Devouring Plague damage a chance to generate a proc whcih makes Void Bolt free; stacks to three. In Voidform, it reduces the cooldown of Void Bolt to 4.5 seconds.
  5. Mind Melt now also increases the crit chance of Shadow Word: Death to begin adding synergy for more diverse spells and strengthen the spec theme of execute damage.

Maddening Touch - Tormented Spirits - Insidious Ire - Auspicious Spirits - Whispers of the Damned

  1. Auspicious Spirits now causes Mind Blast, Void Bolt and Shadow Word: Death to generate spirits in a different way. They will no longer generate an apparition for each target affected by Vampiric Touch. Instead, they generate 2/3 spirits to assault the primary target.
  2. Whispers of the damned now triggers from Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death crits to further entrench the synergies begun with Mind Melt.

<>
Tier 3

Encroaching Shadows - Mindflay: Insanity - Damnation/Void Torrent - Mindbender - Deathspeaker

  1. Encroaching Shadows now causes Shadowy Apparitions to move faster. It also causes Devouring Plague to generate twice as many apparitions to really hammer home the idea that Shadowy Apparitions are the core theme of the Shadow Spec and add some quality of life to AoE apparition detonations.
  2. Void Torrent has its functionality of pausing insanity degeneration during voidform returned.

Mind Devourer - Screams of the Void - Malediction - Inescapable Torment - Pain of Death

  1. Pain of Death is no longer a cleave talent as there are more than enough of those options on the tree. Instead it applies the execute range extension of Reaper of Souls to further build on the theme of execute damage and lean in to the single target focus of the right side of the tree.

Nzoth - Cthun - Ysharaaj - Yogg Saron

  1. Nzoth no longer has a chance to detonate stacks. One layer of rng is enough for this talent. Stacks automatically explode if the stack count reaches 5 or the target dies.
  2. Cthun is now guaranteed to proc when casting Mindflay: Insanity, Void Torrent, or Damnation. It is a single target damage talent. The Void Tendril applies Screams of the Void and can generate Coalescing Shadows as Mindflay.
  3. Yogg Saron is changed to reflect Yogg Saron’s proclamation that it is the God of Death. Yogg Saron now procs a free fully empowered Shadow Word: Death after casting 13 spells that generate apparitions. Crits count as 2 casts.

<>
Conclusion

This is not perfect, but it’s a lot better than what we have and the themes are in line with the spec’s history as well as the player’s expectations of what a shadow priest is.

8 Likes