Dragonflight BM talent feedback

I’ve been thinking about BM talents and after watching the talk Max had I don’t agree with their overall sentiment. I’ve been maining BM for several years now, even in it’s 9.2 state, and I think the spec tree has some major issues.

If you spec BM out you will see there’s about 8 nodes that will likely never see play in their current state. I think the BM tree is only “good” because there’s clearly defined single target and AE builds. There’s very few actual choices though with Rylaks and Barbed Wrath being in the tree you have to get them which leaves the left side basically dead; and old Stampede (Wild Call) is such a great addition who in their right ming wants to miss out.

Exacerbating the problem between the two lower sides Barbed Wrath low in the tree and located behind Aspect of the Wild on the way to Wild Call. Wild Call is great fun thematically for the spec but AotW is a VERY bad CD that is currently being held up by other CDs (Wild Spirits). Throwing in the CD reduction makes it better but only in terms of what it does for BW, alone it is a dud.

That aside my main issues with the tree are, in no particular order:

  1. Stomp is an AE talent and yet is in a single target line.
  2. Sharp Barbs is a very minor buff for the cost, costs 2 pts making what’s below it hard to reach, and is just a weak Qa’pla.
  3. Murder of Crows really belongs in the class tree, where nessingwarrys is.
  4. Beast Cleave is just too expensive and it’s the nerfed version. Combined with the stomp issue makes BM AE even simpler.
  5. In for the kill costs too much for what it does.
  6. Wailing Arrow is too hard to get to.
  7. One with the Pack is twice as expensive as Wild Call making Qa’pla too difficult to reasonably reach.
  8. Qa’pla should be 1pt.
  9. Dire Command at 3pts makes it DoA.
  10. Dire Pack is under 3pt Dire Command making it far FAR too expensive to even reach.
  11. When you do take Dire Pack the fact that it buffs multi is absurd. Even removing multi, it buffing cobra makes it one of the worst talents in the tree, the barbed shot % buffs are probably the actual worst.
    There is mandatory, multi-point, pet damage % and kill command damage % talents. These points may be numerically good but they are insanely boring.

Then there’s the mechanical issues with the spec/tree interactions. The spec doesn’t really function without Barbed Shot having 2 charges (Loaded Quiver) AND 2pts in Wild Call; you cannot maintain frenzy without both and you throw away a talent on Scent of Blood without taking Loaded Quiver. Barbed shot 2nd charge is a throw away point to just make the spec work that doesn’t really facilitate you moving down the tree in any way (you likely will take AC) and should just be rolled into the base Barbed Shot or have an additional effect added onto it (Feeding Frenzy/Bloddletting). Wild Call is in the tree in a really bad spot and needs to get moved into an easier to reach location; the basics that make a spec function should be easier to reach than % damage nodes. Additionally, One with the Pack is literally half of what Wild Call is per point so it needs to go to 1 point or get rolled into Wild Call.

Since there are VERY few pure single target fights Beast Cleave and Killer Cleave will be in 95%+ of all raid builds, and every single dungeon build, which is an extremely limiting 5 points. BM needs a tree shuffle and a cost reduction on some key choices; beast cleave, wild call, thrill of the hunt to name a few.

And finally, there was some really interesting ideas that I’m surprised we’re left out of these trees. Stuff like Feeding Frenzy/Bloodletting, Dance of Death, Primal Instincts. There’s plenty of stuff to add into the tree that feel fun to play with without being +% damage to cobra/multi, +% damage to barbed shot, a worse version of flayed shot, etc.


Yup they need to rework BM, Currently the BM tree is garbage and if it goes live like this I’m done as I only play BM

Well they been working on killing the spec for Shadowlands, so they might be trying to put the final nails in the coffin.


What’s crazy is BM is the best tree of the hunter specs so far, it’s all scuffed imo. Roll the class back to WoD and start over xD


Surprised how much hate the bm tree is getting. I think bm has some amazing things coming in tree.

I really like how they have ALOT of option to dump power into beefing up your pets. Like really making them strong. Idk. Maybe it ends up being ish. But as of right now I’m stoked!

I’ve mentioned this several times before. Incl in here.

There are indeed some interesting new things in the BM tree. For me, mostly the bottom right side with Call of the Wild + the choice node below that, giving the option of the talent Bloody Frenzy. It does seem to be working well enough on the alpha atm, though can’t say for sure about the numbers, but those extra pets are def helping out.

I did however see that the talent Kill Cleave, which by intent should allow Kill Command to benefit from Beast Cleave, currently doesn’t work, it seems. No extra Kill Command hits show up in the combat log, nor does any Beast Cleave numbers that pop up match what should be 50% of Kill Command hit values. Can’t say for sure though as I’m not able to test for myself.

In addition to that, in the class tree, the choice node down at the bottom left side where you can pick either Killer Instinct or Alpha Predator, currently it seems as if Alpha Predator only works if you pick it while you’re Survival. If you’re BM, you can pick it, but you don’t get that second charge of Kill Command.

As for any issues with BM, again, those I found are in the linked post. Much of it is about how they’ve picked previously baseline abilities apart, and then introduced what they took out of each ability as its own talent, just to fill out the tree.

  • Loaded Quiver → Barbed Shot 2nd charge
  • Barbed Wrath → The CDR for Bestial Wrath

…are the ones I would want them to work back to their previous state, as being part of the abilities they each have ties to. Wild Call can stay as a talent I guess, as it has always been its own effect, and wasn’t previously a part of another effect/ability.

And more, ofc.

But yeah, there are indeed some interesting new things in there as well.


it starts with AC debuff to pet damage get rid of it and buff damage from other sources Dire Beast/Stampede even if it cost focus. Barbed shot shouldn’t be a focus generator applying frenzy is fine if u increase duration so u can easier get multiple stacks… cobra shot should be focus generator not a focus spender boost KC damage significantly. I myself would get rid of Multishot to beast cleave playstyle and aoe with explosive shot or cheaper barrage…along with stomp, or as suggested multi to KC for cleave KC

I don’t like the 4s beast cleave thing and think it should either be more engaging or less impactful. With Killer Cleave and 4s Beast Cleave Cobra Shots are basically dead in 2+ target situations until late xpac where it becomes a rarity thanks to more focus regen.

I don’t think Explosive Shot fits very well with BM thematically but having a button to AE with definitely would feel better than press Multi and let the pets do all the work with autos; which is why I LOVE Killer Cleave. I will never understand why Kill Cleave wasnt put into our 4pc, we BEGGED for it and I feel like we’re always begging for BM to get fixed (pet specs, pet AI, basic balance, and I could go on).

I’d like to see Multi come down in focus cost substantially; this allows you to Cobra Shot in AE/Cleave again. I’d also like to see Beast Cleave turned into a 2pt talent (40%/80%) and also change its duration to 4s/8s. The main issue with it at 3pts is it’s a pick in 90%+ builds (every M+ build, most raid builds, and a lot of PvP builds) so it’s just too expensive to spec anything else out later on in the tree (Sylv arrow is basically impossible to reach) you really can’t even reach stomp in an AE build which is a shame.

Our tree needs less points spent across the board; as of right now there’s about 16/17 mantadory points (90%+ of all scenarios) before the first gate. MM has a very similar issue where their single target build spends 19 points before the first gate.