Okay, I think I am seeing what your talking about now.
Class interrupt = lets say 30 sec cooldown
Shadow has a choice to take same Class interrupt but the cooldown is reduced by 1/2 lets say so its 15 sec CD
OR
Take Silence at its base 45 sec CD.
But that makes the class talent a null choice if you want Silence as Shadow.
So if you put Last Word as also an option in the class talent, then that would reduce Silence to 30 sec cooldown.
So spending 2 points for Shadow for either a 15 second interrupt OR a 30 second Silence… But wait, cant you get Silence in Shadow for 45 sec cooldown AND get the 30 sec interrupt in Class tree?
Class tree - Interrupt 24 seconds, 2 second lockout I’m going to call it CARL, carl is a basic interrupt in the class tree.
It reads like this "Carl - 24 sec cooldown, interrupts spells, 2 second lockout - If you have carl selected elsewhere it’s cooldown is reduced to 18 seconds
Shadow tree - CHOICE NODE (Carl/Silence)
Carl -24 second cooldown, interrupts spells, 2 second lockout - if you have carl selected elsewhere it’s cooldown is reduced to 18 seconds
Silence (replaces carl) - 45 second cooldown, prevents spells from being casts, also locks out non player targets for 4 seconds - if you have carl selected elsewhere, reduce the cooldown of silence to 30 seconds
There is no last word, you get last word by taking the class tree interrupt and silence in the shadow tree.
You’re basically just choosing between having a blanket silence or a regular interrupt, and then do you want a shorter cooldown or not.
However… That means you “can” mess up and pick that class tree version and it would be a null talent as it disappears from your bars, but you still spent a point. Assuming you picked up Silence in Shadow.
No, no you can’t. If you choose to take silence and carl you get a reduced cooldown silence?
You cannot take a point without gaining a benefit, even if you “mess up” and take both when you only want one you STILL get something valuable out of both points.
There is literally NO scenario with what I’m suggesting where you can accidentally take a dead point.
I assumed so, I agree it’s basically the same. The only reason I’d suggest a slightly more involved version like I did was to allow for the choice between the 45 and the 30 if you want to take silence but not a point to reduce it’s cooldown.
Which 2 silence points still kind of costs the last word point.
I don’t dislike the idea, just not my way of approach.
So not sure if you have made a detailed post to explain how you would address the priest interrupt issue. But Hopfully this back and forth gave you plenty to consider in making sure your suggestion is clear.
My finial issue is this though… The fact that Silence is even in Shadows Tree and not in the class tree just doesn’t sit right with me when blizzard want “utility” to be in the class tree. I would classify “silence” and any interrupt for that matter as “utility”.
So I would do as I mentioned prior, just make the button change mechanically for Holy/Disc compared to shadow. Each get a 45 sec interrupt, but Shadow has the added bonus of it being a Silence and then the “improved” talent will lower the cooldown for each to be 30 sec. So Shadow doesn’t have to spent points in Shadow that Holy and Disc can get a “similar” version of the ability within the Class tree.
This again is why I think my solution is a lot more similar and doesn’t give a spec more/less advantage over other based on talent placement within Class compared to spec trees.
It’s really just a case of which niche thing do you want blizzard to do, have talents change in their class tree based on spec, or have two talents have effects contingent on eachother.
I guess that precedent is already set… abet its loosely with these talents… So it would be a major difference for something like Silence.
But if I had to pick, I would hesitantly say change mechanically. I say hesitantly because that opens up the idea that Vampiric Embrace can follow that road and change how it works for Holy and Disc. But imo, that should be “Shadow” damage… Vampiric… Blood… Leech… Damage etc. Since Holy and Disc have very little “Shadow” damage they can spam within that small VE Window and the damage they do is already designed to be low and as a result leeching from it will be low as well… it would require VE to be completely changed if it would be useful for Holy and Disc. That change HAS to be done mechanically based on spec as it needs to retain its current capability for Shadow to make it useful.
Throes of Pain
Discipline
Shadow Word: Pain and Purge the Wicked deal an additional 5% damage. When an enemy dies while afflicted by your Shadow Word: Pain or Purge the Wicked you gain 1% Mana.
Holy
Shadow Word: Pain deals an additional 5% damage. When an enemy dies while afflicted by your Shadow Word: Pain you gain 1% Mana.
Shadow
Shadow Word: Pain deals an additional 5% damage. When an enemy dies while afflicted by your Shadow Word: Pain you gain 5 Insanity.
Inspiration
Reduces your target’s physical damage taken by 5% for 15 sec after a critical heal with
Discipline
Flash Heal or Penance
Holy
Flash Heal, Heal, or Holy Word: Serenity
Shadow
Flash Heal
Manipulation
Your
Shadow
Mind Blast and Mind Spike
Holy
Smite and Holy Fire
Discipline
Smite and Penance casts reduce the cooldown of Mindgames by 2 sec.
You solution doesn’t solve the problem I have though, which is having a borderline unusable interrupt in PVE content.
It’s not the end all be all of issues, but it feels like the game has evolved to a point where at the very least every dps should have the chance to have a 24 second max cooldown interrupt for M+
I think having an interrupt should be available. But if the interrupt is AOE or Single Target or gets reset or in Shadows case it blankets Silence should be left to the flavor of the class/spec.
I can imagine being in a situation where you are trying to gather a caster into a death ball and if a Mage uses CS… maybe that mob stops casting Frost… But then it just casts Fire… so you need to burn another interrupt to lock out of that school as well.
With Silence, Shadow comes in clutch and locks it down entirely and it will come running.
So in that regard, having a longer interrupt but have increased functionality is a trade off I think works just fine for Shadow.
For the sake of context I’m pretty sure there are zero mobs in the history of Mythic+ that have done this. At the very least there isn’t a single dungeon in SL that does this.
I attribute that to a lack of creativity then lol.
Its the same issue with the rest of our “Priest” utility in that its great when you need it… but so often things are not designed in a way for us to take advantage of it.
Priest
Mind Control
Dispel Magic
Mass Dispel
Shackle Undead
Leap of faith
Levitate
Mind Soothe
Mind Vision
Shadow
Silence
Dispersion
Those are examples of cool abilities that I don’t think have enough creative mechanics that take advantage of us using them. I think because they are so niche, that the mechanic that would take advantage of them would either be so brutal that not having these is a pain in the butt… or so trivial that you don’t even think about using them
So I think its a creative mechanic issue within the content. Not the flavor and capability of the class.
Well you can take your silence for flavor, and I’ll take my lower cooldown interrupt for actual functionality.
I cannot remember the last time this situation has been relevant, and even in these scenarios, there’s an argument to be made that having an interrupt available on all your dps that’s usable in a reasonable amount of time is totally fine, and using 2 of them isn’t a big deal.
If you want to make that trade off, go for it. I’d like an option to trade off the blanket silence for a shorter cooldown.
The other problem is that you’re not making that trade off in a lot of scenarios, because a lot of mobs are just immune to the silence effect and you don’t have the chance to use the utility but you still pay the cost for it.