Dragon Flight Request: Intimidation without a pet

Please make a lone wolf version of intimidation. I love pvping but intimidation is so strong it basically means you are forced to play pet or you just lose out on a 5 second stun. Please create a version of intimidation for lone wolf so you can use it without a pet.

I havent really played hunter that seriously since MOP-Legion but if i could PVP without being forced to have a pet due to stuff like Pet Sac or stun not being attached to the pet i would love hunter and play retail again.


I’d like to say pass. So you want the utility that the pet brings while Also having the dps boost that lone wolf brings? Seems balanced.

What is up with people wanting every thing? Is it not a good thing your choices matter?
As someone who thinks pet are essential to Hunters i’d like to see pets still matter. They have already removed most of the reasons to even use the pets. Intimidation is almost all that is left. Perhaps its ok to make a choice between the damage or the stun?


In PvP, you’d still be obliged to use a pet for the various other forms of utility it offers even if this one talent did not remain awkwardly mutually exclusive with Lone Wolf.

That said, why should the pet be required for anything extrinsic to the pet any more than not having a pet should be required for one to do their full AoE damage? Neither is sensible nor ideal.


You write your sentences quite weird… Like double negative on a negative? So sorry if i misunderstand.

But please tell me what “various other utility” is “locked” behind pets? Because besides lust and possibly the new defensive ability (which is a talent…) i dont really know what. Do you mean the reduced healing debuff? Because that brings it up to a total of one, and that is not utility… And let me guess, you lone wolf lovers want that outside of pets as well?

Why should the pet be required for anything (in this case anything is… A talented stun and a talented defensive and a reduced healing debuff?) you ask?
Oh i dont know… Perhaps because the freaking class is a pet class?? Just because blizzard gave people the option to play one spec without pet does not suddenly make it so its the defacto default playstyle of the class, and we should be able to do everything without a pet…

I say again. You have a pet less option but please stop asking/demanding that all the stuff related to pets be moved away from pets… Does warlock Also suffer this type of people?

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  1. Not a “Lone Wolf lover”. I just don’t see a point in non-choices, especially those that lock out or waste talents.
  2. Mortal Wounds is utility. So is the 50% snare.
  3. Master’s Call, RoS, and Shadowlands SotF all likewise require a pet.
  4. Lone Wolf is only a net gain to AoE damage, and shouldn’t be an increase to total damage anywhere. It should merely be equal; else MM would have its damage balanced around even less utility than an unspecialized Hunter.
  5. Asking for one talent choice otherwise made a non-choice to be locked behind a likewise currently problematic “choice” (Lone Wolf) =/= stripping pets of any and all utility.

Better option: Remove lone wolf.


Or just actually balance it?

No, I disagree with lone wolf and grim:sac on a holistic level. There are only 2 true pet classes, and thats what those classes should be (warlock and hunter).


Just going to ignore the debate and Also ask for this every time someone ask to get lone wolf and the benefits of the pet. Seems like the better reply. Thank you.

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Its unfair that people with lone wolf get to do more damage. I want lone wolf removed since its ruining my gameplay with pet.

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The only reason it has any damage gain is because utility not intrinsic to the pet is locked behind using a pet, forcing Lone Wolf to offer something in compensation. Separate the extrinsic utility (passive, lust, call, and SotF) and that’d no longer be the case.

Using a pet would still have the advantages over Lone Wolf of operating a second unit for the purposes of tanking in leveling, growl-LoS dragging ranged in dungeons, continuing damage without LoS, and Snare/Wounds, with Lone Wolf solely being a way to avoid the annoyance of ones pet being screwed over by particular (usually older) fights or wanting to be mindful of it’s position (primarily a QoL gain at cost to subtle utility).

Only pet users would get the full benefit of the pet. But benefits not intrinsic to the pet would be separate from the pet. Simple, intuitive, and freeing, while ultimately giving back our choice of pet family (since the Hunter, not the pet, would choose what passive you and it receive).

You know what would be simple, intuitive and freeing? Removing lone wolf😉
Imagine not having to make a choice between pet or lone wolf… Hunter would just be the same physical pet class its always been.
Lets do it! Lets remove lone wolf!

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Conqueror’s Haki, just what Hunters needed…

I think Lone Wolf was a mistake.
Way back when, at times, some MM Hunters were running w/o their pets. I suppose they felt the loss of pet damage/utility was worth the simpler, more trouble-free play.
Blizz decided to give those Hunters a 10-15% damage buff to make up for the loss of pet dps. Passive or no, it’s what we call the Lone Wolf talent.
It didn’t take long for people to start lobbying for the pet utilities be also included in the buff. The justification is including the pet utilities in the Talent will free them from ever having to run a pet.
People want to have all the benefits of running a pet w/o actually running a pet. And they’re half-way there.
Before Lone Wolf, all Hunter specs could run w/o a pet, but not optimally. MM gave up about 10% dps. Some people thought this self-nerf was worth it. Then Blizz buffed the spec with the Lone Wolf Talent, which freed MM from having to run a pet to achieve maximum dps.
Three things all Hunters had in common: Traps, ranged damage, and pets. With Lone Wolf, one spec no longer needed a pet.
Thus, the Class was broken.
I don’t know what the justification was for Lone Wolf, buffing a self-inflicted nerf, I guess they just felt like it. It may be they’ll feel like adding pet utilities to it. After all, there’s no reason not to.


My dog loves to play fetch. If I go outside and throw the ball without bringing my dog along, nobody is going to bring it back to me. I’ve lost that utility that my pet brings…

I kind of think of it like that……

The dmg bit is wait and see. It’s possible for MM to have a much stronger pet in the new expansion. Not taking lonewolf also saves, potentially, 3 very precious spec talent points to spend elsewhere. It’s possible skipping lone wolf may provide more dps… We’ll have to test to know…


Thing is without MM having some form of Beast Cleave, not taking LW still won’t be an option. Might as well still be baseline.

Consider this:

  • The class tree lets MM buff the pet beyond current live, and get a buffed very hard hitting kill command(also teleports pet to target). It’s easy to find the points for that in the class tree.

  • The, potentially, 3 spec points you save from Lonewolf and it’s followup could be spent adding bottom of the tree things to your build like like bulletsorm, salvo, windrunners barrage, ect. Potentially a lot of dmg in 3 spec points, including AE dmg.

  • Intimidation

  • You add that to the dmg, leech, lust the pet brings on live.

  • Misdirection is still there for multi target agro while soloing.

That said, I agree Lonewolf should be baseline and not a talent… It doesn’t seem worth while as a talent… Spec points are precious and you lose a lot by taking it.

If you did make lonewolf strong enough to be worth the talent point, wouldn’t it just be a mandatory point sink?


It would. It therefore ends up like any other (imbalanced) choice—it needs to be balanced against its opportunity costs.

That can be done in either of two ways. You remove any extrinsic benefit and any extrinsic opportunity cost (no talent cost and no removed class utility) or you balance Lone Wolf to be sufficiently throughput- and utility-laden to compensate for its cost in talents and utility.

The second is a balancing nightmare, leaving only two real choices:

  1. Make it baseline and separate extrinsic utility from the pet (which would inadvertantly allow pet choice again), or…
  2. Remove it.

Personally, I don’t think mastering beasts should necessarily be required of anyone but Beast Mastery, marksmanship of anyone but Marksmanship, or use of survival tools of anyone but Survival, but I could see also why people want there to be less thematic breadth available to Hunters and for each spec to play more similarly.

Gameplay wise, either outcome is fine to me, as I tend to use a pet for its utility even when others would still favor Lone Wolf for a middling 2 or 3 target advantage.

I just don’t want to continue to be obliged to call and dismiss my pet. Let either single route be sufficient until we have use for, or are hampered by, actually using the pet as a pet, not an unlock for abilities that have nothing directly to do with controlling a second unit.

All they have to do is allow Intimidation to summon a temporary pet that does a stun and then disappears in a puff of smoke … stuns and runs. Well, maybe not all they have to do. The situation as it is seems … a bit ridiculous.

10% damage increase is not worth the damage loss of Pet, pet freedom, pet sac and pet stun. That is NOT balanced in any way.

Wow has tons of pet specs but only one bow actual bow spec. I dont see why marks needs pets it adds nothing to the spec overall. If we didnt have pets on marks we would gain 5-6 extra buttons that could go towards the Lone ranger gameplay. From mobility, utility etc. We have buttons for pets\pet abilities that are wasted on marks they dont interact with the spec at all.
Utility that requries a pet:

  1. Freedom (masters call)
  2. Sac - Best hunter defensive ability in pvp ( the only counter to some crit classes like fire mages/warlocks)
  3. and now a 5 second stun that will be required for pvp
  4. Anti heal with raptor pets (mortal wounds).

Lone wolf was originally suppose IE no difference in damage if you went lone wolf or went pet. There should be no difference between having lone wolf or a pet out damage wise. They changed it and it should be reverted and they should also remove the need for pets on marks in order to use the majority of our utility.

So i think your take is not really thought out.

Using your same argument i could say that tons of specs have pets from mages, warlocks,hunters and dks. We only have one Bow\Gunner spec and its forced to have pet management or be unviable with utility. Hunter already has 2 pet specs, Pets add nothing to the marks hunter fantasy and having 5 pet abilities that dont interract with anything is a waste of space i would take 5-6 new marks\lone wolf like abilities over abilities tied to pets any day. I would take a dark ranger hunter (no pet spec) over the current half and half Marks hunter iteration, other games do rangers\bow specs better and its because we are stuck with a pet taking up the majority of our bars on marks and it doesnt interract with anything core to the rotation\kit…

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