Then you’re just homogenizing the game… We might as well all play the same class at that point.
It contributes to it when you have as many insane defensive CDs as you do.
Honestly temp shield might as well be a self heal. Can top themselves off easily. Combine that again with the insane defensives that they have.
Seriously when you have 100% immunities you don’t need that much sustain. That’s what those classes were designed around. Tbc-wrath rogue/mage was insanely good without any sustain. They really don’t need it now.
Lets look at that. On my 413 ilvl rogue popping vial for 30 energy I gain back 60 energy before even the vial has finished healing.
Only in a pve situation would you lose dps, but as I have repeated this is pvp and you should be pooling energy and getting 5 combo points ready between kidney shots anyway
So like I have mentioned several times mana bars for dps specs are a whisper of it’s previous usefulness.
So let’s talk about the spam part of this. On my 435 ilvl equipped paladin with 18% vers 4 casts, which is all I can do before I go oom which takes about 6 secs to get off all for 4 casts anyway btw, it would heal for 29,996.
I have 342k health, so that comes out to be roughly 8.7% of my overall health in one cast, with 4 casts before I go oom that comes out to be 34.8%
So if it takes 4-5 secs to cast 34.8% of my health, what are you doing during the time you are healing over 6 sec? Oh that’s right you are continuing to dps and exert control over the fight.
That’s why there are so many boomkins and ferals in arena right now
Mobility is a sub category, as it falls under both pressure and sustainability.
In better designed days rogue could beat people naked with just daggers and a freedom trinket on. They didn’t have any self healing in those days, but they were still strong.
Again when recupe was added it was a heal I could get behind as it costed an actual dps loss, it’s like comparing cost to repair your gear in current wow to classic wow.
Reduce healing further? Have you seen rsham heals? They’re already pretty average, they’re top comp is running with two dps that don’t need heals. So we bring everyone to their level?
Then healers are essentially weak dps and all dps are weak healers (or as a dk a strong healer lol). Giving every dps a heal/self-heal is also very homogenizing.
I’d be fine adding recup back. It was nice having a HoT ticking 100% of the time versus a heal I have to wait 30 seconds for.
Yes? I’m fine with ttk as it is but if you take issue with it, especially in an arena setting, I’d look to healers as the reason for drawn out fights before I’d look to hunter’s exhilaration or warlock’s drain life.
Point taken but I don’t necessarily agree. Every class, ALL of them, has access to some form of CC or another but as a rogue, I don’t feel that they’re chipping at my class identity as ‘the CC guy.’ Every class has varied defensive cooldowns. Every DPS spec has varied offensive cooldowns. As long as they vary from one another in the way they work, playing a shaman isn’t going to feel like playing a death knight (and it doesn’t).
Looking specifically at DPS self-heals, death strike works very differently than exhilaration which works very differently than metamorphosis leech. The only homogenization I can see is with the hybrid heals like healing wave, regrowth, and flash heal, which are almost strictly carbon copies of one another.
Lol the length of this CD makes this fine… Let’s make ds and vial this long too then I’d be fine with your self heals.
Drain life really isn’t their issue lol…
Sort of? Except so many classes have walls that are exactly the same. Only some classes have insanely good defensives so you get the current situation where some specs are op and others are garbage tier. The only way to balance when so many specs have self heals is to then give every class cc, every class the same damage, the same defensives. It’s not just about the same self heals it very similar everything. Enhance for example never had a cc, but they have to have one now because you have a self heal. It’s literally homogenization.
Lol as I stated before rsham basically doesn’t heal in arenas… Pve tank trinkets and stuff like ds added to very good defensives are the real culprit of long fights. Same with rmx, can’t kill them because their cc + their defensives and sustain is insane (half the strength of the comp is the healer can walk away to get a drink which means they aren’t healing and rmx still lives easily).
All the op classes live forever that’s the issue. Look at stuff like hunter, even survival is barely competitive (0 in the top 100). So how do we make them viable? Better reduce exhilaration to a 30s cd right…
Some classes just have too much of everything cc, heals, defensives, damage. Something has to give or everyone won’t die and everyone will look the same.
As long as the way these abilities work vary from one another and as long as some classes ‘specialize’ in one category more than others, I don’t feel any homogeneity.
I don’t think any specs like enhance need to have zero CC’s for classes to feel different and I definitely don’t want every non-hybrids to all be given a broad, sweeping sustain nerf/removal for the sake of diversity.
We keep coming back to crimson vial, so let’s nerf that. I don’t see why everyone else’s self healing needs to go down with it. Case by case evaluation.
Name of the thread is “DPS self heals.” People are laying out arguments like DPS didn’t have self heals back in the day and classes are becoming to homogenized but if you wanna backpedal now I’m cool with it.
Fine, so we’re in agreement then that crimson vial can take a hit and we’re basically good to go from there.
I am laying out arguements that vial feint are quite a lot on short cd.
Mage barrier, 3 magic schools, casting with blink.
Lock 3 separate dr ccs, pure passive tankiness
And then op went to say
So clearly this was focused at the non hybrids
Im not back pedaling now. You just either lumping me in with everyone else or confusing me with someone else. I dont even have much a problem with dk healing as it is currently.
My only issue is how over tuned rogue lock and mage is
DH healing is only really good if they are scoring kills. Leech isn’t really that great and you can prevent the healing with defensives/cc if you need to.
Noodle compared to wings, but templars verdict hits as hard as a hunters aimed shot outside of wings and they get many more tv’s than a hunter gets aimed shots… Have to get some perspective. Even never using wings tv will be 30% or more of your total damage.
then I’d be fine with your self heals.
