DPS self heals

It wouldn’t be so bad if most casters had some way of getting melee off them and therefore help to stop fueling these dps from passively healing, but no you have to stand there and facetank popping 3 min cds and trying to get a cast off while they simultaneously heal and dps as part of their regular rotation.

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Things like treants and nature’s grasp for boomy, that vanish/mirror image thing priest use to have.
The return of things like that could go a long way

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Is that a rhetorical question or are you asking genuinely because you don’t know? Each of those classes either have to sacrifice DPS to heal or have limited access to their heals. Fury warrior is the exception and it’s an established part of their niche.

Hybrids can heal themselves and others as well. That’s their differentiation. You can complain when mages start topping off their arena partners.

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I have a 120 rogue, DH and a warrior and the answer is no you don’t have to sacrifice up for your healing, nor do you risk being interrupted to use said healing. I will say it again NO non hybrid class should have healing.

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This is what irritates me the most. In a 1v1 against most melee classes, they heal themselves more effectively than I do. And sorry, claiming that you lose a little bit of DPS in order to passively self-heal doesn’t really garner any sympathy from me.

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Dh is leech, meaning they heal from all their dmg.

Dk you arent sacrificing dmg to ds over throwing death coil as most of your dmg/pressure as a dk is going to come from necro, pet, helchains, and diseases.
Coil doesn’t even do all that much, the important thing is to just spend the runic power to get your rune generation going

To imply rogue is giving anything up is laughable. The energy requirements for feint and vial is super negligible. As you should be pooling energy between kidneys

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I’m not going to carry on debating about how tying a resource cost to a heal means sacrificing DPS to use it or how having a heal on a cooldown means having limited access to it.

Someone here explain why only specs with healing OFFspecs should have access to both self healing and healing usable on others. And again, should specs with tanking offspecs just have superior active/passive mitigation than others for the same reason?

Imo melee classes all deserve some sort of self-heal and maybe the current ones just need to be tuned down a little. Melee are in the thick of the battle, getting beat on, shot at and spells casted upon them. We don’t have the luxury of standing in the back, away from most of the fighting, waving our magical little fairy fingers. Our attacks are quick and precise just like our healing capabilities.

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That’s an obsolete concept. I try to stand in the back, but most melee classes can instantly teleport to me, and DK’s can pull me into the thick of the battle against my will.

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Just like Warlocks, your class was made tankier then other casters.

But currently there is not a trade off of losing pressure to use self sustaining abilities like vial and feint.

Back when recupe was added it required combo points, and that was a real trade off for damage.

Because this was how it was for the first half of the game and it worked fine. Back in wrath rogues had zero ways to self heal, but they could beat people naked with just daggers and a freedom trinket.

You shouldn’t have a full package of amazing control, amazing sustain, and amazing dmg.
For ww my only real healing takes many casts of a heal at 1.3 sec cast at 30 energy healing me for that takes 8 casts to go from 50% to full.
Ret paladin, dps shaman, spriest, and dps druid all have nerfed mana levels compared to old. They get maybe 4 or 5 casts before they are oom, and they have to actually hard cast.

So dont pretend like a low energy cost of low cd of feint and vial is a trade off for your dmg, considering all you are doing is pooling energy between mini goes between kidneys anyway

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Warlocks are exponentially more tanky than Shadow priest. It’s not even a contest. There isn’t a melee on this earth that actually looks at a shadow priest and thinks “wow that guy’ll be tough to take down.”

Outside of dispersion Shadow is a sitting duck. Zero mobility to actually kite the melee with a million gap closers, no tankiness whatsoever. Our shield can be removed with one autoattack crit and our weak heals are in the same school as our attacks.

In this meta, melee have so many gap closers. The only ranged class that can actually dance circles around melee is arcane mage or a fire mage with combust. For some classes like warlock that’s fine. But for others like ele shaman or spriest it’s not exactly fun.

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Ill give ele shaman the benefit of the doubt , but shadow priest literally has an AoE fear, an absorb shield and greater fade. On top of that, you have dispersion and a decent heal cooldown for passive healing through damage.

Now since this thread was started on the BG forums, I’m assuming you have a team to also help peel and heal for you if you’re getting focused. Plus, I don’t think any class is able to heal through 3+ dps focusing them down, but 1v1 in a BG you have more then enough tools to sustain yourself until a team mate can back you up.

The trade off is that we can’t heal others. That trait is entirely unique to hybrids.

If you want to make a case by case argument for a class having too many upsides then that’s fine. The concept that a spec shouldn’t have any self-healing unless one of its possible off-roles can be a healer because “it was like that before and that was fine” is ridiculous/arbitrary.

Honestly, if you want hybrids to be the only ones to heal themselves like the old days then feel free to also re-implement the hybrid tax that allowed pures to deal better damage for reasons.

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Which hybrid spec deals more dmg than the pure dps?

I want an actual trade off. Like how recupe the first rogue heal was based off combo points, or locks had burning tap or whatever it was called.
Because as it stands right now you aren’t really sacrificing anything.

See above about the hybrids go oom in like 4 casts of at most 8% health, or wws doing 5% health in a cast.

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Yeah, yeah and rogues’ heal is on a 30 second CD and costs energy, DK’s costs runic power and requires melee range / is based on damage received, etc. etc. etc. Every ability had a conceivable downside.

The notion that pures need to have additional disadvantages because they don’t have a healing offspec makes no sense. The most articulable reason for that given in this thread was that the game worked that way like 10 years ago- somebody throw out something better, lol.

You can heal others, we can’t. How much more special do you need to be than us?

Not even close. You can stop a hybrid casting a heal pretty easy, multiple ways.

Things like deathstrike and vial can only be stopped so long.

Deathstrike is easy to get off, with grip, stun chains, easy to keep in melee range of something. And talking about needing runic power, most of his dmg is coming from using runes. Spending runic power just gives him more runes backs

Only cc is stopping vial, and you conveniently keep forgetting to add feint as part of your survivability. I would love a 30% dmg reduc on a 15 sec cd.

You have locks trading absolutely nothing for their self sustain, and their healing done is easily beating out healers in a lot of situations.

As well as all those pure dps abilites you are still able to keep moving and attacking while the hybrids have to stand still for their casts.

Never did answer this.

You talking about energy and runic power being the cost, make it combo points and runes and I bet we would see it balance better

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Guy, we. Cannot. Heal. Allies.

That’s a straight up, objective advantage that you already have. You don’t need more and we don’t need less. Melee/healer hybrids like enhance, feral, and ret get intermittent instant heals usable on themselves and others too. I must have skimmed through your lengthy analysis of those abilities.

Idk? I don’t keep up with how every class and spec is simulating. The design philosophy that pure DPS classes should do more damage than hybrids simply because they’re pure DPS is long gone. There is no hybrid tax today.

You never answered this:

Should we be stripped of passive mitigation mechanics too since we don’t have tank offspecs?

You can heal to full while in stealth at no risk to you and you don’t have to sacrifice any kind of press to do it.

Are you referring to eating in stealth? Druids can do that too… regardless, not sure why we’re singling out specific classes in a discussion about whether hybrids should be the only ones with self healing or not.