Are you seeing a lot of SP doing 27’s without these outlier specs in the composition? I’m not going to go through RIO and spend that time, but these off meta specs aren’t timing these 25+ keys without them. I’d love to see a key this season that was timed with spriest, balance druid, ret paladin, prot warrior, mistweaver monk. These specs have all timed high keys, but have they done it without a survival hunter / destro lock carrying the dps? The most you can say is the specs are balanced around a 27 while being carried by other specs.
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if you queued as dps they didn’t kick you because they saw you were ele lol. its the better of the two shaman dps specs atm. they probably had a hunter join the queue
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the aoe cap idea has been a disaster, lets say, x spell for spec a has a 5 target cap versus y for spec b, spec b is going to perform better overall
they painted themselves in their corner, sure they uncapped some aoe talents but at this point, just remove the boring stupid cap who hurt some specs more than others
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Finally someone that understands it. It impresses me how far every class is from these two lol
Ah, so someone contributed 0 damage and was carried through a key = “The Balance Point”. It’s balanced guys because you can get carried!
Only a troll or an utter fool could support such an argument.
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We literally are on a forum where certain races have these abilities of sorts that grant them combat effectiveness amounting to barely a single percentage point and people on Alliance still kick and scream about how “Horde racials are still so overpowered!”
Trust me, if this community complains about ANYTHING on a relatively consistent basis, it’s that they really like to complain about “1%” on anything it’s mentioned, be that damage between specs, be that the top 1% of people playing the game somehow ruins their experience because apparently the game is wholly catered to that group. . .
Because Blizzard is stuck in a weird limbo right now. They grossly butchered balance and identity from Wrath onward in the name of “Bring the player, not the class” despite anybody in a position to be reasonably impacted by this change telling them for years that all this would do is make it solely about what class/spec is doing the most damage rather than justifying bringing a bad class because of a utility which ironically was why a lot of underplayed classes even saw groups despite being the thing keeping them down supposedly.
They realized around WoD that people were sick of it and a lot of people actually did like their class and spec having these small niches that made them permanently relevant but they’re doing that thing kids do where they dip their toe in the water of a pool 20 times before deciding to jump in.
So what you’re ultimately going to end up seeing is huge utility things to a raid are going to be shared by a couple of classes/specs, then for the ones where only one matters really, you’ll look at the classes who can bring that to the group then you’ll pull up how each spec is performing and pick whatever one is the highest of that list among the roster/applicants if you’re pugging.
Bloodlust was kinda nice on shamans, it gave them a guaranteed raid slot in a guild come Hell or highwater. The second it got given to mages, and hunters everyone thought “Oh, well shamans are garbage but mages are god tier so bench the shaman and get a mage.” A big reason why shamans had to constantly keep getting adjusted or buffed throughout Cataclysm is because the one utility offered by their class to justify their raid slot was given to a class that also brought more damage for the raid just by existing.
It’s like this, the things they should have homogenized like all caster dps offering something like Arcane Brilliance, or other classes having things like Mark of the Wild, etc they did way too late. Then the things they never should have homogenized they chose to which basically is why class balance is a total mess because for some reason every class in this game, even the ones that can tank and heal in addition to having a DPS role feels they have an equal right to being the top damage dealing spec.
Frankly I just want them to address the Pure situation at this point even though they never will and I stand by this, if you roll one of the four classes in this game that has three specs all focused on dealing damage, your class ALWAYS should have at least one of those specs not only viable, but it should be among the top performers because that’s literally ALL these classes have going for them is damage. A rogue doesn’t get to press N, go to Specializations and press “Activate” on the spec with the tank or healer role marker and still have a raid spot.
Know what does though?
Priests
Druids
Monks
Demon Hunters
Shamans
Warriors
Paladins
Death Knights
And all 8 of those classes listed who are all capable of doing something other than damage have a way to play that is always in demand if they want a group spot. Yet they all have very vocal playerbases giving you every damn reason why their druid who can melee dps, caster dps, tank, and heal all in one damn character while also retaining a fair chunk of that functionality just passively should also have the ability to theoretically be the best performing in every single one of these things because that’s how they prefer to play. This happened in WoD at the end where Druid ended up being either best, or second best for literally all four possible roles of a raid, and some classes who had 3 dps specs had all of theirs in the middle.
It absolutely does not mean that at all, what? It means a certain Shadow Priest given certain circumstances can clear a +27 key. That’s literally all it means.
This does not mean that a spec is balanced for having done them, and certainly doesn’t mean they’re balanced for it unless Blizzard meticulously does every single level on every single spec to fine tune them to being able to perform, except you and I both know that has never, and will never happen. They’re STILL trying to tell us when the world first guilds are dealing with double digit weakauras import crap so a boss mechanic is actually able to be done properly that they “playtested these raids inhouse with last tier BiS and a close to default UI.”
I totally believe that from the same company that literally just the last expansion dropped a literally mathematically impossible boss on our heads in the first raid for it (Fetid Devourer Mythic), they took an entire day of “collecting data” to not fix it because I guess when guilds full of people playing their spec to the literal utmost it can dish out in a super minmax environment where we can simulate items in real time to figure out if it’s an upgrade and by exactly how much decided to just say “Screw doing the actual mechanic of the fight, tunnel the boss because he heals back more when we can’t kill the second one anyway and it’s wasted DPS” and went with that approach it might be a really tough case to crack whether it’s genuinely impossible or not.
If anything Blizzard designs specs in this game, assigns them spells, and damage values. That’s actually it. They clearly don’t balance these to any meaningful measure, they clearly don’t play half of them, they clearly don’t know a lot of their kits. Theorycrafters doing this crap as a passionate hobby understand specs far more in depth than the people being paid to create these things and likely will accomplish much more things with said spec.
As for whether something “works” in certain bits of content and it’s something really out of left field as in non-meta, you’ll see more work being done by the guy desperately looking over every niche item he can get his hands on that will let him add just that little bit more damage than the guy at Blizzard with their job resting on whether people are satisfied with the state of the class or not. One has his eyes on a goal, the other has his eyes on the clock so he can go punch out at the earliest minute, go home and do stuff there then show up the next day with the same “I don’t give a damn” attitude because odds are they can do literally nothing and still probably be in the same position in four years.
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I thought I was doing great dps which I usually do end with 11k over all…
Then I was in a 14 with an arms warrior and survival hunter and finished with only 5k over all.
Like OMG they are blowing up the aoe before I can get close xD
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The funny thing is, that parse is likely inflated because I can’t imagine they’re up against stiff competition from their own spec at that point. Kinda like how you technically could hit a boss once then go afk, as long as your raid world firsts it you’ll have a 100 percentile parse provided no other spec was in that same run.
Although to be real, if I had the option I’d just replace the ret with another tank. Losing only 4% of the group’s total damage but having an entirely second tank might actually allow for a lot of crazy gimmick pulls.
The 4% coming from the 3600ish difference between him and the tank divided by the total which was rounded to 77k. Granted that does assume the second tank pulls just as much.
On the real though, this Ret parse makes me feel like I’m looking at Esfand’s logs from Faerlina when Classic launched again. Dude would brag about how he was a pink parse ret paladin with all the gear warriors wanted and with full consumes and world buffs his ret paladin is coming in hot with 400 DPS, enough to curbstomp the Patchwerk test, oh, literally any viable spec is doing that damage multipled by 3 with a less strict requirement to minmax, oof. Imagine being kitted to the teeth, streamer stans spoonfeed you consumables out of their pocket to crush the meters, and you’re outclassed by any mage in green gear reading “Of Frozen Wrath” yawning as he smashes the Frostbolt key 50 times a second.
Meanwhile this dude’s rolling around with an Onslaught Girdle, QSR, BRE, Accuria, at one point he even had a Thunderfury I’m pretty sure. Gear that any warrior would kill their neighbor to have drop for them in their next MC and get given to them and doing less damage than a warrior in their leather pre-raid BiS gear and the offhand somehow being unequipped all run.
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Honestly, I think I have given up on wow. I will probably finish this season since I joined a raiding guild then I’m done. M+ is the only good content this game has to offer and they are too incompetent to do class balancing. This season class balancing is the worst it’s been since the inception of m+ and it’s not fun.
I COULD use a steak knife to perform surgery, but why would I when scalpels exist?
Possible and Optimal are miles apart…just like DPS balance!
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People wouldn’t complain if there wasn’t such a huge gap between the specs, and they could play what they wanted to play without feeling like they are more of a hinderance than a help. It is unacceptable that there are only two dps specs that are really viable in high end M+ (Survival and Destro.). These numbers demonstrates that the developers are not doing their jobs because I highly doubt that every dps player running M+ wants to be survival or destro.
I agree with you, that wasn’t the point of my post.
I mage now, so invis pots haven’t been a thing for me for awhile, but wouldn’t it be 2 pots? I thought invis put your pot on a 10 min CD, or did they change that?
I’m sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote. I think there are too many people who are willing to make excuses for poor game development. Please accept my apology!
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You are free to link me logs of a spriest doing 27s that do 0 overall damage.
What’s your point? The spec obviously did enough dps/utility/whatever to A) bring them B) time it.
They just wouldn’t be brought otherwise.
I don’t base my replies on feelings and anecdotes so I don’t know why you felt the need reply with them.
Why can’t all these players that can never find groups just group with each other?
There’s too many individual specs. Plus a lot of it really is just user perception. DPS rankings are mostly derived from algorithms and bot performance and don’t reflect what players are doing, or are frequently even capable of. And even then, the difference in performance between the absolute best and worst spec? It’s about 10%, maybe 15.
And that’s bearing in mind that these simulations and meters also don’t reflect party impact. Warlock curses and crowd control wont show up on a DPS meter but they can make or break a Mythic+ run. Demonic Gateway can let you skip whole pulls. That ain’t showing up in a meter.
For the average player, superior performance will carry your spec further than a ‘stronger’ spec being played worse. And on the off chance you’re polishing off your +20’s, you wouldn’t need to be told, “play your class, not your spec.”
The rest is just atypical PUG behavior. Which is annoying, don’t get me wrong, but when players PUG by default they’re looking for anything that will get in the way of a successful run- perceived obstructions or real- and avoid it. Which is why it pays to be social. Filling out that friends list and actually being a person people want to keep running content with is the best way to avoid problems. Because most smart players want to run with the best warlock on their server even if warlock DPS is a bit low at the moment than a decidedly average rogue who’s DPS is carried by the fact that their class is a bit over-represented at the moment.