Double Honor Analysis

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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The amount of honor being doubled is the level 60 post 2.3 value of 14.

The old system for prepatch honor kill calculation uses the 1.8 prepatch list and divides by 10. By changing the honor from 14 to 28…

Post 1.8 CP+ numbers divided by 10 was your prepatch HK number.
Patch 2.3 Numbers - 140 (14)
Rank 1 - 198 (20)
Rank 2 - 210 (21)
Rank 3 - 221 (22)
Rank 4 - 233 (23)
Rank 5 - 246 (25)
Rank 6 - 260 (26)
Rank 7 - 274 (27)
DOUBLE HONOR - 280 (28) We are here
Rank 8 - 289 (29)
Rank 9 - 305 (31)
Rank 10 - 321 (32)
Rank 11 - 339 (34)
Rank 12 - 357 (36)
Rank 13 - 377 (38)
Rank 14 - 398 (40)

Basically our kills are all going to count as though they are kills on people ranking between 7 and 8.

Honor for battleground objectives
Level 60 prepatch 14 multiplied by the objective value
Level 70 is 20.9 multiplied by the objective value
Double Honor prepatch is 28 mutiplied by the objective value

Both of these feel like it will be great news for prepatch, although the HK honor of 19.8 to 39.8 was something that existed in Original TBC into season 1 and 2, long after the prepatch is over.

In Classic TBC we will be using 2.3 values for Season 1 and 2. This means 14 honor at level 60 and 20.9 honor for level 70. We will also be using 2.4’s removal of the diminishing returns, so at least these honor values will stick.

Since we would be using season 3’s HK numbers, we should also be using Season 4’s “Honor Fix” which was reintroducing the repeatable quest “Concerted Efforts”.

Unlike the rep farm that existed the first time this NPC was added, the quest requires level 61 due to the quest needing EotS marks.

1 WSG, 1 AB, 1 AV, 1 EotS mark —> 314 honor honor repeatable
This puts the honor per mark at about 78, making each win essentially 235 bonus honor.

The changes will be fine for prepatch in my opinion, especially with the average rank of the players pushed down by those using the level 58 boost.

For season 1 and 2 we are using the 2.3 value of 20.9 honor per kill co-efficient for level 70. I remember the 2.3 honor values being kinda awful but we also had no diminishing returns in 2.4 too. Concerted efforts drastically rewarded wins in all 4 battlegrounds and that was pretty big. We are getting that IMMEDIATELY in season 1 instead of near the end of TBC if we are using the 2.4.3 reference server.

TLDR - I think we will be okay unless they disable the concerted efforts guy. Really wish we had the original 6 weeks of prepatch to play around in.

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2

Thank for your info throughout this, and youre still a god. However, i haven’t seen you mention the shortened prepatch timeframe and your thoughts on those who had the chance to already grind to honor cap. Care to weigh in?

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I wish prepatch was 6 weeks long like the original prepatch was. At the same time though, I hold the unpopular opinion that it should be like it was in Original TBC…where DR/BE/JC are all turned off during those 6 weeks.

It sucks that we don’t get more time to prepare and test out our stuff, once prepatch ends, we won’t get this level 60 with 41 point talents environment ever again :cry:

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Funny that players love this and it’s probably a nightmare for devs

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Actually the completely imbalanced and chaotic environment of the prepatch are times in history the devs don’t have to care about rofl.

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Yeah I was going to say it’s either high anxiety or hands off

7

ive gotten 0 honor in the past 2 BGS in AB albeit losses still nothing? lol

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It’s really painful. I hope alliance stops their “Premade afk AB” nonsense.

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In all the complaining of the honor nerf, I have yet to see someone give a valid reason why they hate it.

The actual reason I hate it, is the fact that the GM/Warlord gear is still 13 to 35k a piece.

If they would just nerf those down, then I don’t really see how the complaining would be valid.

I agree giving out a 1 day grind to 100k is just giving someone an easy route out to get what they want at level 70. So I agree with the honor nerf while you are 60.

But I don’t agree with the gear staying the same value that is really to far of a reach for 13 days of play (2 weeks isn’t true since they took a day away from us)

Why not nerf the gear honor requirement to half. It’s gear we won’t use past level 64 or so.

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What a fun time, games are just filled with afkers trying to grind out their gear instead of full geared people playing for fun

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I gave a valid reason then, we were getting 2.3 honor values for HKs of 14 when we should have been getting pre 2.3 values for honor kills of 19.8 to 39.8 each. We only noticed it really hard when they stopped the Vanilla honor values for BG objectives.

Why not nerf the gear honor requirement to half. It’s gear we won’t use past level 64 or so.

I guess that’s what they are trying to do by doubling honor. But in reality double honor is comparable to prepatch honor values in original TBC. I am just banking on concerted efforts being decent in TBC launch.

I’m gonna be honest, original TBC is where this nonsense started happening on a large scale.

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Is that currently enabled on the pre-patch?

13

When I finish work in 7 hours, I’ll try to camp someone to double check. If we are running off 2.4.3 servers, this should be one of the natural changes.

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Also a lot of people are misinformed it would seem on why the honor was important. Most players are sitting on their 75k honor to buy level 70 epic pvp gear and the level 70 blue GM/HWL weapons. (when I say most players, I mean the people who played vanilla thoroughly and are not trying to catch up on gear)

People who capped will have an advantage at the start of the pvp season and will have to spend less time pvping for gear and can use that time elsewhere (like professions and rep grinds).

15

Today its been roughly 15 min que times.

In my last 9 games both AV and AB im averaging 399 honor.

My hourly average honor gain per hour for the last 5 hours has been 650 honor.

At this rate its going to take me 59 Hours to get just the 2h Weapon.

That is 6 hours of PVP a day till June 1st since there is only 10 days left.

I , like many others, have came back to enjoy TBC and the prepatch PVP. I came back to grind out PVP BG’s for HWL gear to level with in TBC. I did this in original prepatch with my Shaman and had tons of fun. This is what brought me back to play and i was hoping to make new memoires with friends and grind out quests and pvp in hellfire and beyond. This short prepatch makes it impossible with the current honor gains. Further adjustments need to be made. The system was changed in prepatch originally just to help people come back and gear up in HWL gear to get into TBC. Now with the current system in place its impossible.

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Hey, I found a whole bunch of posts from 2006 that are very interesting and informative:

Some supposition from that post:

The rough rule that we’re using is “10% the honor you used to get.” So, think like 500-1000 honor an hour depending on how you play.

At 1000 an hour an epic 2-hander would be 45 hours of pvp. For casual players, this is not a “freebie” at all and more like 60-90 hours.

Folks in beta are all reporting about approx 20 Honor Points per solo kill in the 61-64 range. Some report up to 30 at higher levels. I’ve also noticed that we’ll get from 1-13 or so within pvp groups (i.e. splitting honor).

This Blue post talks about a 30% honor nerf that happened one week into the pre-patch:

Posted by Nethaera 12/12/06, 11:24:29AM CST

Q u o t e:
Now that the Before the Storm content patch has been live for the past week, we’ve had a better opportunity to track the rate at which players are accumulating honor, and subsequently how easy it’s been to obtain honor rewards. In gauging these elements, we’ve determined that the effort required to obtain honor rewards is more trivial than we had intended. As a result, during today’s maintenance we’ve applied a hotfix that reduced the amount of honor gained by approximately 30%. This change allows the honor rewards to be obtained at rate that better reflects the item’s in-game value.

Here’s a video posted on December 19th, 2007 of a solo kill on a rank 7 Warrior that gave 12 honor. DR of one kill would put it at 12 from 14:

Here’s a video posted on December 14th, 2006 of a solo kill on a rank 10 Warlock that gave 18 honor. DR of one kill would put it at 18 from 20 if this video was taken before the nerf and uploaded after:

The way people recorded videos back then, it would make sense that those players that recorded these videos had a fight without their recording software running and decided they could record a cool PvP video, so they decided to go back in for another round. This would explain the DR on these world PvP fights.

Here’s a video uploaded on December 28th, 2006. At the start of the video you can see he’s using the Black Pearl Panther trinket, so it’s the TBC pre-patch. It’s hard to tell but every single kill looks to be below 20 honor:

This video I just found kinda seals it for me. Uploaded on December 16th, 2006:

Every single kill is in the 10’s on all kinds of different ranked players.

I still can’t explain this video that Zinqf linked. The rank 14 solo kill here gives 40 honor, which is double what it would have been in the first week of the pre-patch, if all the evidence I’ve shown is correct:

Could there be another explanation for the 40 honor? Could there be an explanation for all the other kills in the video with honor over 20? Is everything I posted just coincidence? I can’t find another video like this one with kills in the 30’s and up to 40. The video looks like pre-patch and was uploaded to warcraftmovies on December 21st, 2006. The Hunter is definitely using Silencing Shot.

EDIT: The explanation is that the honor displayed from kills was not correct in the first bit of the original TBC pre-patch. This post categorically states that the honor after the first week of the pre-patch was 14 per kill:

[Drysc]

[Blizzard Post]

Updated 12/19 -

Bonus honor is now added into the estimated honor totals as soon as you receive it.

Honor is always awarded relative to your character level versus the level of your opponent (bonus honor is always awarded equal to your level). A level 60 killing another level 60 will award 14 honor. As levels lower or differences become greater between opponents the amounts of honor that are awarded will change.

Adrianne Rich — “Every journey into the past is complicated by delusions, false memories, false namings of real events.”

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17

Even losing I been getting 450 to 500 honor per arathi basin. I have 8k right now but not enough marks to buy anything lol

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This explains the wild inconsistency between people’s “evidence”

Shame all the honor investigators are all offline…

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