Doom Winds still countered way too easily - PvP

Classes Shaman
1

So many melee have either short offensive CDs or have ways to CDR their main offensive CDs on top of having more CC immunity or ways to get out of CC than Enhance. Enhance has Doom Winds on a 1 minute CD that lasts 8 seconds (or 10 with Thorims if played), its extremely short duration for a 1 minute CD. Disarm counters Doom Winds too easily as it forces a trinket or you just lose 5 seconds out of 8 or 10 seconds of your Doom Winds, and there is always more CC coming afterwards that is 4-5 seconds or more.

You can just Disarm>Leg sweep or Disarm>Storm bolt or Disarm>Kidney/cheap to completely stop Doom winds every single time its active. It is also very easy to kite since Enhance has mid mobility especially without Ascendance.

There really should be a solution for this by now. Either bake Weapon Chains effect into Doom Winds baseline or reduce Doom Winds CD so it doesn’t line up with Disarm. If we aren’t going to reduce the amount of “CC immunity” abilities in the game like Lichborne/IBF, Demolish, Conduit, or increase the CD of other very strong offensive CDS then Doom Winds needs help. Its way too easy to counter. Another solution is to rework Enhance in PvP to be a highly mobile/high uptime consistent damage spec so we aren’t as reliant on easily counterable CDs to land kills. Kind of like how Outlaw Rogue is right now.

Primordial Storm can also be the solution as it is a 30 second CD but it continuously gets nerfed whenever its actually good, so we end up being fully reliant on counterable 1 min CDs like Doom Winds or we pick Ascendance which is a 2 minute CD with no way to CDR it which is not fun as we mostly run around until its back up and its also just made to be a cheese one shot CD which is boring gameplay, would rather it be a 1 min CD with less burst to add to our consistent damage/uptime.

3 Likes
2

Yeah I 100% agree with you on this.

Enhance right now is literally a one trick pony — there’s no real surprise factor anymore. Everyone knows exactly when your go is coming, and it’s way too easy to shut it down. You pop Doom Winds and it’s just instantly answered every time… no thinking required from the other team.

The biggest issue is exactly what you said — 8–10 seconds on a 1 min CD is a joke in PvP. That window is so small that one Disarm basically deletes your entire go. And because it lines up perfectly with other classes’ defensive/offensive tools, you’re constantly trading your entire win condition into something way easier for them to press.

And yeah the CC chains are brutal:
Disarm → stun → follow-up CC
Your whole burst is gone and you’re just standing there doing nothing.

On top of that, Enhance legit dies the easiest out of all melee right now.
No real immunity, no proper wall compared to others, and mid mobility unless you’ve got Ascendance up. Once you’re trained, it’s rough.

Compared to other melee:

  • They’ve got short CDs or CDR

  • More CC immunity / outs

  • Better uptime

  • Less punishable win conditions

Enhance is the opposite:
:backhand_index_pointing_right: predictable
:backhand_index_pointing_right: easy to counter
:backhand_index_pointing_right: falls over when focused

The Doom Winds interaction with Disarm is honestly one of the biggest design flaws. Your suggestion is spot on — either:

  • Bake in a weapon chain effect, or

  • Desync the CD, or

  • Just straight up reduce the CD

Because right now it’s just too clean of a counter.

And yeah Ascendance is even worse design-wise…
2 min CD, no CDR, pure cheese one-shot window. If it doesn’t work, you’re just waiting around doing nothing again. That’s not fun gameplay at all.

Primordial Storm could’ve fixed a lot of this with more consistent pressure, but every time it gets close to being viable it gets nerfed… so we’re stuck back on this all-in burst playstyle.

Honestly your last point is probably the best direction:
Enhance needs to shift into a high uptime, consistent pressure spec instead of this “all eggs in one 8 second window” gameplay.

Right now it just feels outdated compared to how every other melee is designed.

2 Likes
3

Yeah that is my personal wish for Enhance. It has the recipe for being a high uptime high consistent damage spec, some things just need to be improved. Feral Lunge could get a slightly reduced cd+increased range and grant move speed, spirit walk could grant immunity to slows/roots for its duration, etc.

After that I’d like to see our CDs toned down and our consistent damage increased via stormstrike, lava lash, a new honor talent for crash lightning that makes the apex talents functional, for example: “Crashing Thunder: Crash Lightning now consumes all charges to deal that damage instantly. Crash Lightning Unleashed slows all enemies standing within it by 70%”. That way Crash can be a valuable button and our 1st Apex talent becomes useable.

Theres also other things I’d like to see like an Elemental Lasso honor talent that lets us choose between 4 different kinds of Element based Lassos (only one at a time):
-Lightning Lasso: Does what it does now

-Ice Lasso: Grab your target with your Ice Lasso, freezing the target in place for 5 seconds. Press this ability again within 10 seconds to root your target again. (not a channel)

-Magma Lasso: Grab your target with your Magma Lasso, disorienting them for 5 seconds. Press this ability again within 5 seconds to pull your target to you. (not a channel)

-Wind Lasso: Grab your target with your Wind Lasso, slowing their movement speed by x% while increasing your movement speed by x% until the Lasso breaks. Lasts 10 seconds. (not a channel). Press this ability again within 10 seconds to empower your Wind Lasso to immediately bring you to your target, consuming your Wind Lasso.

But all of that to say: Whatever they do, they need to make Doom Winds less counterable if we are going to be so reliant on it for damage.

4

This for PvE too please.

Enhance has the potential damage profile to be a spec (similair to frost mage) that doesn’t rely on a 2min cd. A few things just need to be moved around.

How about buff base damage across the board then make Doom Winds/Ascendence a 45 second cd that turns your next 5(or however many) Stormstrikes into Windstrikes.

5

Shaman in general needs 2 Ascendance charges.

This alone would cure all Shaman Specs of what they’re in need of.

1 Like
6

Honestly I’d rather them give us 2 charges of Doom Winds than Ascendance. This could just be bias because I’m an ascendance hater, not a fan of the way it works in pvp as a cheesy one shot cd and then they nerf it until it doesn’t do enough to warrant being a 2 minute cd.

2 charges of Doom Winds though would be really prime because we could pop the second one with Prim Storm since Prim Storm is a 30 second cd. And I’d rather have that power put behind a 1 minute cd than a 2 min that historically gets nerfed too hard in pvp whenever it’s doing what it’s designed to do.

That or just making Doom Winds a 30 second cd would be very nice. It’d work well for both PvP and PvErs, it’s the way they’re gone with a lot of CDs already anyway.

1 Like
7

Okay if you don’t like having access to bigger and better damage and burst then just let Blizzard give 2 Ascendance charges to Elemental and Restoration Shamans, idc lol.

This solves all the problems between specs.

8

It doesn’t solve any problems because they’re going to nerf it in exchange and it’ll be weaker than you expect it to be. If you think they’ll give 2 charges of ascend the way it is now you are on some crazy copium

Could work for Rsham but that’s only because Ascend sucks and a second charge wouldn’t do anything anyway (in pvp)

9

Stop being a Stressed-out Steve. You don’t know what they’ll do. So stop worrying about it.

They gave Druid 2 Incarns everything’s fine, the world didn’t fall apart.

10

How long have you played shaman for? You also can’t compare one class to another like that lol, ascendance isn’t incarn, very different variables there. But also blizzard dunks on shaman any time it’s very strong so you can pray all you want for 2 charges of ascend, if it happens I hope I don’t see you back here crying that ascendance does nothing anymore. It’s not like we have a track record to follow or anything when it comes to shaman tuning/changes

11

You sound like you’ve been playing WoW for 10+ years straight with no break. All cramped up waiting to jump down people’s throats the moment you don’t like what they say. Take a vacation dude. I just got back from Florida.

12

Cant find who asked

13

would it be more valuable for long term success in life for a person to just put a huge gap in their resume and say they went to prison for assaulting a pregnant woman rather than putting any kind of employment at Blizzard

14

Would be nice to see something for Doom Winds in the next patch. Either baseline Weapon Chain added in or just something for it. 5 second disarm is insane when Doom Winds lasts 8 seconds (or 10 with thorims), it just forces a trinket or you sit and lose over half of your main offensive CD.