A lot of pvp forums is boosters flaming each other when they’re bored. People who try to monetize their own gameplay and bad faithing discussions to further that agenda is something I’d avoid.
I still have nightmares of FOTM venthyr holy paladins trying to heal Prideful mobs in SL S1…
im not worried cause it literally does not impact me at all. im a casual player, i pick what i want to play and ignore the people who yell at me for “playing wrong” because im not a high end mythic player, never have been and never will be.
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As you can tell my opinion on boosters is very low and boosting at this point should be banned outright.
People cannot behave when it exists as a thing.
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Man i am so glad i have every class at max level. I can just play whatever is good and not worry about nerfs.
No one is asking for this at all, tanks have never been 100% dependent on healers. This logic reads like healers and DPS shouldn’t rely on tanks to soak hits, all roles should be able to handle bosses and trash hitting them.
They’re an answer. They are not the answer. And as it turns out, a meta comp played by people who don’t know the dungeon mechanics and don’t use their control tools effectively will still have just as much trouble as a non-meta comp in the same spot. If you have enough time to whinge about the meta then you have enough time to learn the dungeons and practice your class. The meta specs are not an “I win” button. You will need to put in the practice and learning regardless.
I’ll acknowledge that the meta plays a part in getting invited to PuG groups. But the impact on performance in +10s and below (aka where rewards top out) is minimal. You don’t need to be the very best in a +10, you just need to be good enough. Being a strong player will give you much larger margins than a meta comp will, margins large enough that you will succeed regardless of the specs you played.
What exactly are they supposed to learn from it? That metas exist? That class throughput isn’t exactly identical across all 40+ specs in the game? They know that already. It is quite literally impossible for a game where different builds are as unique as they are in WoW to make every single spec equally valuable in all circumstances. You can either have perfect balance, or you can have classes that are actually different from each other. You can’t have both. As it stands, I rarely see the gap between the top and bottom specs in WoW be large enough to warrant the whining we typically see on the forums and when I do, it tends to get hotfixed it short order. It makes even less sense to complain about class balance now when the season hasn’t even started yet. I don’t know what the TWW season 1 meta will be and neither do you. Let’s wait until the unbalanced doomsday actually comes to pass before we complain about it, shall we?
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The disband rate in keys is going to be shockingly high for PUGs.
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The 90% rate on beta would have a lot to do with it being beta, that won’t remain that high live.
Will people still ragequit, sure but that happened since M+ began and even earlier in TBC heroics
I get what you are saying but it’s also wrong. It can still be go go go even with some down time.
When someone dies and we wait to rez, when the healer goes oom, there are tons of places where breaks happen.
So the issues you’re highlighting here were not just at the top 0.1% mark. A player able to time even one old +20, or even one new +10, is sitting at a point where they’re in the top 15-20% of app players in this content.
And people were doing this stuff in 15s. And 6s. The items you’re referring to are things that if you even time a key at the level they are occuring in, you’re sitting in the top 50-60% of players in that content. If you’re going to bring up such points, you should probably be more aware as to what you’re actually talking about if you want anyone to take you seriously.
But beyond that, the stamina changes in TWW were NOT targeted at the top end play, but specifically at midrange play, and specifically to shift the healer paradigm first and foremost. The players at the top 0.1% level are not going to care one way or the other, the content always scales and there is always a limit that pushes you into “we cannot misplay, regardless of the challenge” anyway.
I’m personally someone who’s been sitting at that top 2-3% mark, and even at this point, most of these changes aren’t remotely consequential to anyone who’s pushing M+. If you’re capable of timing a +11 key and you desire to ride up, caring about changes like this often means you’re not actually learning your class/content/group well enough in the first place. And a single timed +11 is juuussssst over the 10% threshold, or within the third SD of a normalized data set.
Thus, we would then ask who DOES care about these changes and gets impacted, if not the top 10%. And that puts us back into the 2nd SD bucket, which is going to cover roughly the top 40% percent outright. And this group is the first one that benefits from not being insta gibbed by failure to coordinate and deliver when it’s avoidable!
And in M+, there isn’t much functional difference of the midrange above/below, and the changes benefit players the less skilled they are in practice!
Which makes “wah, the top 0.1%” here an absurd claim to make, and an equally absurd hill to die on. On paper, these changes don’t support your claim much unless you don’t understand the content you’re speaking to, which makes you unqualified to speak to it at that level. In practice, these changes aren’t effecting the group you’re targeting (outliers), nor the 3rd SD, much at all!
And the first group to have much impact is the 2nd +SD, and it makes the content more stabilized and fair to them. Which makes it more fluid for those at the first +SE, before we get to a point where the content is too easy to care again!
Which means it sounds kore like you don’t actually play the content at a meaningful level to care, and if you do, you’re speaking out against things you don’t want…which the changes address
It’s like, do people even use their critical thinking caps these days?
Statistics don’t say anything about fun.
Are the changes making M+ more fun?
Ooooh, sounds like someone understands basic statistics and combinatoricccccccs
But in seriousness, this. It is very VERY rare that a class isn’t viable in the top 0.1% level, and usually when we DO have such a season where one didn’t show, said class is often still showing at the 1-5% range just fine, and it tends to be an underrepresentation issue more than anything.
People who also complain about the top 0.1% like OP is also tend not to have a clue what the landscape even looks like at that level. For example, when you’re at the top 0.1% level, you don’t actually care about some abilities that burst you in a one shot dropping to a two shot at sub +10s, because that’s effectively going to be a one shot for you with or without the change if not handled properly
You also tend not to think in terms of damage/healing at those levels, but in terms of time.
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Yeah. I don’t play at that level really but from what I could tell, VDH was a meta tank more for its absurd level of crowd control tools with double sigils than anything related to its actual throughput. The meta means more for getting into a group than it does for actually contributing once you’re inside. It’s always been about perception. Which is why I so frequently get audible gasps whenever I run a PuG as Feral and manage to not fall flat on my face. How could such a feat be possible on a “bad” spec?
It’s all whatever. I don’t put much stock into people trying to see the future with regard to what a new expansion will look like anyway. So much is changing at once that I don’t see how you can even remotely do so accurately. If there’s a problem with specific specs overperforming in TWW to an extreme degree then Blizz will address it on a case-by-case basis just like they always have. If there’s a problem where the success rate of groups as a whole are too low for Blizzard’s liking, then they’ll nerf the dungeons also just like they always have. No reason to tear out hair over any of it.
Im still gonna criticize the players who complain about everything constantly. If it wasnt for that blizz wouldnt have to reinvent the entire game every 6 months
Your example is poorly thought out. The situations are completely different. These changes won’t affect people as much as you think. You’ve also downplayed the playerbase by calling most of them dumb.
I don’t mind the changes. Having dungeons that are meant to be a challenge, actually be a challenge? Sure. I’ll still play in the game, that isn’t going to change what I do, and where I play.
Your doomer mindset will only affect the players that like to huff their own farts, the ones that wish they could be in that '0.1%" that are pug players.
I don’t even need to engage with your other points. Your basically trolling everyone here by saying most players are dogcrap without having played with the majority of the player base. I bet you haven’t even played with 1% lol.
Will keys at +10 suffer in the first few weeks? I think only those in the pug world will. And that’s honestly okay.
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do you have a source for this exaggeration?
Cata cadence is what lost subs. You’re wrong.
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This feels like it’s going to be a repeat of OG Cata release… I’m sure that will do great things for the population.
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Thank god you have the experience of one whole xpac to lecture us on