Done with this game with the direction its heading

PVP Arenas
21

Agreed. Activision ruined overwatch with overtuned healing/support mechanics, and the same has become true of WoW it seems. Healers instantly topping up players with next to 0 actual casted spells, and even if they did have to hardcast, interrupt CDs have been hard nerfed to where you’ll basically never fall behind on healing it seems. Just throw more instant cast heals at it.

Games are already starting to go til healers go OOM and dampening, despite the meta being supposedly “the fastest it’s ever been”. Versatility guarantees that the more gear we get, the more healing will scale faster than damage, making instant healing spells even more powerful than they are now. I gave this expansion a 5% to have a fun arena meta, so at least I didn’t get my hopes up. TBC/WoTLK arena will most likely be more fun.

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22

Look man, I understand how the stuff works. But you wouldn’t even notice that other crap beyond the Kyrian changes had they not told you. No one likes being nerfed. I get that but if you think no rogue will be playable now you’re just mistaken. People will hoot and holler over any % change. If it’s negative, they freak out.

I’ve yet to queue arenas since but my gut is telling me rogues are still going to do damage.

24

thats just empirically false.

The changes are REALLY noticeable. You seem to think that a 14% damage nerf to our burst, which is our primary method of damge, wouldn’t be noticed?

Along with a 70% base damage nerf to Kyrian ability?

You clearly don’t play a rogue.

I noticed my burst OUTSIDE my initial opener (which is where i would use my Echoing Reprimand) took a massive hit. The only time i do even slightly threatening damage is coming out of stealth so as to take advantage of 100% crit with Assasin Leggo, with cooldowns up. This forces me to constantly play on the defensive and try to get restealths and create opportunities/force cd’s, which is fine. But thats not how it ends up playing out. What ends up happening is, the other melee can just train my healer, and their raw output surpasses mine completely and they win the war of attrition against my healer when I am restealthing and setting up kills.

OR they just blow giant damage cd’s on my healer when i am trying to drop combat and delete him in a few cd’s.

And EVEN IF you play perfectly, and you do a 5 points KS - blind - sap - sap - 5point KS bomb shadowy duel kill combo perfectly, a healer can just instantly top off a melee, or some can instantly top off themselves. And now you are out of cd’s, out of damage, and standing with your d*ck in your hand.

I had a ret paladin the other day heal himself from 7% hp to 88% hp. in one instant cast WoG proc crit.

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25

Welcome to WoW 2.0. Where blizz caters to people who think their class should be the bomb and nobody else. I’ve played warrior for 8 years and I actually rerolled because I’m sick of not having self heals. Ret, priest, shaman, druids, EVERY HYBRID needs a healing nerf.

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26

Don’t you love how every sub rogue is bringing up rating because they suddenly found a wellspring of talent last week and are suddenly shocked it’s quickly drying up? Gotta use that CR to brag out something or talk down to someone quick or I’ll lose it next time I queue!

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27

i never bring up rating, because someones rating is completely irrelevant to the argument at hand.

its an “appeal to authority” fallacy which doesn’t contribute anything to the main argument.

getting XYZ rating doesn’t make your observations or opinions about the state of pvp in the game any more or less true. All it does is change how credible people perceive those opinions to be, and give people with higher rating self granted authority to disregard anything they disagree with if it came from someone with a lower rating.

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28

Dang bro, you’re right. Sub rogue is gutted. Absolutely worthless. Garbage tier spec. Impossible to climb with. Those sub rogues doing well at 2k+ right now? All of them cheaters or figments of my imagination. They don’t exist.

Lol, piss off troll. With this level of dedication to your craft you’ve got to be another demoniclilly creation.

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29

you realize that you keep ur CR from week to week right, and the nerfs were rolled in this morning…

sub rogues aren’t doing well @ 2k right now. in fact over 80% of them have dropped rating since today. so nice try buds.

30

True, and so when I’m climbing today and fighting rogues that deleted me around 2200mmr, I’m just imagining it because according to you they’re free wins and do zero damage.

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31

thats not what i said either Cathy Newman.

32

Tragic. Imagine suddenly you can’t use your swifty macro to play for you and suddenly you tank CR. Harrowing experience, I bet.

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33

and ad hominem attacks based on no evidence.

Grow up.

34

Idk, you said they do mosquitos kiss damage unless they blow all CD’s in the opener. Sounds like you’re a FOTm reroll who’s struggling without his swifty macro.

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35

The dude is trolling because he doesn’t know how to play against rogues.

36

they do mosquito damage unless you line up your cd’s. this is an unequivocal fact.

You are not going to force healer CD’s and create and opportunity where you can land a kill without lining them up. Thats my point. Sub is so dependant on its cd’s to do any sort of damage now, and those cd’s aren’t that good. Is it possible to use them perfectly to create an opportunity to land a kill? Yes. But the difference in effort and risk/reward required in comparison to other melee atm is palpable.

If the rogue is beating you, he is completely outplaying you with bomb/CC/Blind combo and coordinating with his partner to burn.

rogues objectively do far far less damage then any other melee spec atm, and on average sub rogues are dropping in rating above 2k. These are objective facts.

Rogues damage also comes out in MUCH longer bursts then any other melee atm except maybe WW monk, but WW monk can do massive splash damage, aoe stuns, and hard consistent pressure.

Again, grow up.

37

You just learn that word or something? Don’t need to say empirical every chance you get. I understand you play a rogue and I don’t. Moving on.

Isn’t it just 10%? I mean most rogues take subterfuge I’m pretty sure… Shdowblades does 10% less now. And cold blood got fixed. That’s it aside from Kyrian. So yeah, I think that’s fine. Like you hit for 7k before, now you hit for 6.3k. 700 dmg breaks you? I realize it’s on every ability just about but again, not killing people instantly isn’t a bad thing. Hate to bring up pika but do you watch him at all? His videos are disgusting lol.

You mean play like sub? Ok.

I don’t need a breakdown of what happens to you. Frankly man this is just a play better situations. You were likely carried by overturned damage. Now you need to adjust. So adjust.

You don’t play perfectly. I’d wager faaaaaaaar from it. And I’d you aren’t killing something in a kidney, blind, sap, duel, you deserve to have him be topped. We all wish we could single handedly cc someone for like 30s lol… I can’t believe you just said that.

I agree they’re too strong. I actually lost once to a ret/war the other day because the ret literally kept everyone alive forever without ever casting. Was insane. However I’m confident I’d beat them next time. Just caught me off guard. They are a little nuts though.

Are you literally watching the ladder and making spreadsheets of this or something? Lmao. I bet they are too. Serves them right. People that already had no business being in that rating relative to their skill and got carried by memes now lost their gimmick. How about the rogues that actually play rogue(sub) all the time? How is pika doing? Nahj? Stungod? Whazz? They tank too?

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38

You have the entirety of rogues kit at your fingertips and you’re going to complain that it requires cross CC to kill someone? Am I getting that right?

Your complaint is that you can no longer just ook someone in the opener and that you have to use sub rogue’s control, what the spec is designed around, to kill someone?

Buddy. Come on now.

You say grow up, but damn dude, I’m sorry you won’t be able to play on a Flintstones Phone now and will have to buy an actual keyboard to press your buttons because LOL.

“Oh my gosh, I sometimes can’t kill someone inside my CD’s if they react defensively. This is bad” hahahaha. Oh my god I’m done. Enjoy tanking rating, bud.

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39

you clearly have no idea what ur talking about…

ok first off, Kyrian got nerfed as a whole, and this effected sub badly. Our finishers, and therefore our burst windows (eviscerate) coming out of stealth depend on mastery. That was halved. This means that our eviscerates now all deal significantly less damage. I don’t know the exact percentage off the top of my head, but pre-nerf the mastery buff would turn a 3k evisc crit into a 5-6k.

Then, stack that halved mastery on the nightstalker nerf. Either you spec out of nightstalker(because its not really worth it anymore) , and lose 8% damage in ur shadowdances (for not having the talent) or stay in nightstalker and lose a flat 4% on ur shadow dances. This is a DIRECT burst window pressure nerf and a BIG one. Our burst comes in our Dances. ALL of our dps pressure comes from dances. we do virtually no damage outside a stealth opener or a shadow dance.

Then comes the nerf to Shadow blades, which reduces ALL our damage during our most important burst window AGAIN by another 10%.

Then comes the nerf to Echoing Reprimand, which was the only one that was anywhere close to hitting the mark, and its overall damage was reduced by 70% total in pvp, which is still heavy handed.

so in total your eviscerates are hitting for around 1/2 the damage they were pre nerf in your burst windows. Your SS’s are hitting for around 15-20% less. Your echoing reprimand is now hitting for around 1/6 what it was before. This all adds up, when you consider those are our three primary damage dealing abilities.

Not to mention that shadow duel has now been gutted by bugginess to the point where you cannot use it on someone with immunities.

You are purposefully cutting the quote short out of context, and disregarding my following point which directly adresses this comment. I said that was fine, but that’s not what ends up happening atm.

oh im glad you mentioned Pika. Here is a video of him agreeing with me. Notice how at the end of the video, he is bottom damage in like every game except when playing against other rogues-. This makes rogue almost unplayable in 3’s. Crazy huh? Now kindly realize that you wear ur biases on your sleeve.

Nerfs were needed. These were heavy handed and went way overboard. Face facts.

40

Yea, you’re doing it wrong then.

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41

I know how it works… I threw numbers out for the sake of % comparisons. You can sit there and pick apart everything all day if you want but let’s see the “empirical” data. Your favorite word. More on that below.

Like bubble? Yeah you duel yourself at that point. But I mean bubble for duel is pretty fair in my opinion. I’m sure they’ll fix anything that’s not intended.

And I believe that with you playing that’s not what happens. Let’s not pretend you play optimally. Saying there’s no room for improvement? I also didn’t cut it short for any reason. I addressed the rest in my response. You telling me what happens is just anecdote from you. And no offense but… why do you set the precedent?

He played RPS all video. What mage? Lol. And cause of his cc? CRAZY. It’s almost like that’s sub’s entire purpose. I can guarantee you on his stream, when he does viewer 2’s and such he’s still gonna 2v1 people that you can’t beat normally. Don’t take the ramblings of people for face value. Look at Xaryu with mages. Dude is heavily biased and complains all the time but slays everything anyway.

Either way, heavy handed or not when considering the top of the ladder, it’s certainly not keeping you from 1800 or whatever you’re trying to get.

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