I remember trying to kill people with the darkness flame leg in Legion and it was such a hassle building stacks. Noo way.
yes, survival is RNG and super bad!!!
leech system is bad!!!
Does vengeance get a lot of hate in pvp? I have been really enjoying it in wpvp and bg’s lately.
I enjoy both specs. Generally I play Havoc in epics and Vengeance in everything else.
Not saying this is a reason to not fix Havoc, just to be clear. Havoc needs some love from devs.
We’re not in a great spot but I’ve had reasonable success so far. I dunno what the higher ranks will hold but I suspect my using Venthyr instead of Ardenweald will/does throw a lot of PvPers off so my vampire tricks catch them off-guard. 
I feel so damn useless without a dedicated healer, and even then I feel like healer has to pull out all the stops just to prevent me from dying.
I run Cycle of Hatred, still need to kill Sire for the legendary to really see how good the build can be, but I can only really survive on my own every 4 minutes with Meta + Demonic and praying I get lots of Cycle of Hatred procs to continue staying in Demon Form. I feel like a god then but if I’m not in Demon Form I feel pretty damn useless.
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