Does anyone actually like the new M+ requirements?

I am not a massive pusher of keys, I’m not great at it, but I like to get at least challenger each season if I can.

However, with the introduction of the new M+ system, they added a requirement that you must get fortified and tyrannical. There are lots of people who can’t stand one or the other, so they’d go out of the way to avoid those weeks, but instead of addressing those issues blizzard just forces us to do them both which quite honestly seems like maybe the worst solution possible. It’s not fun, it doesn’t make it enjoyable, it feels like an attempt to call it “content” because there’s more of a hurdle. Maybe I just don’t understand how the alternative key adds up to your final score but its just annoying.

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You just don’t understand the scoring system is all this is.

You 1) can push high enough in either fort or tyrannical and get the score you’re looking for (KSM is about 23s in each dungeon if you decide to not play either week)
2) you literally don’t have to time the keys to get score, you just have to complete them and not be grossly out of time. (So for people who get stressed out for some weird reason about a timer, they don’t need to as much anymore )

They made it way easier to get this done for the general masses.

You can do many options like all 16 fort and all 14 tyrannical and get KSM or 17/13 but you only cared for conqueror anyways so you have to do even less

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Many of the playing complaining about Tyrannical was due to them being bad at mechanics and dying. Which gave them the impression that it was somehow significantly harder than Fortified. For KSM level keys, Tyrannical and Fortified are balanced and there’s no reason to “take the week off” for +15s. KSM was too easy to get this season. It was an absolute joke.

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This makes me tolerate it a bit more, but 1 set of 24s instead of 2 sets of 15s isn’t something anyone is doing.

Play all the weeks regardless of affix. You might enjoy it and actually find tyrannical to be your preference when it’s all said and done. A lot of the problems come from players being unfamiliar with affix combos because they don’t want to be challenged. Run towards the fire my son. Embrace the heat.

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Here’s my take… it’s gonna be a long post, but I’ll try to stay on topic :wink:

I like the new rating system in that it lets you have more meaningful progression break points for ilvl upgrades. This works much, much better than the old way of timing all keys at X level because sometimes it was really difficult just to find the one run you needed. Now you just need the score and there’s a lot of flexibility in how you approach that.

Also, while I may have reservations on rating itself and its impact on the community, with it being baked into WoW means all players have access to it. Very quickly players will come to a generally understand what it means and how its used, with no need to use 3rd party addons or a 3rd party website. However, I do like that Raider.IO is complementary now. The built in systems tell you your rating, but RIO gives you access to your history. The two complement each other really well!

Here’s the downsides… M+ has the potential to be its own progression system and I think a lot of people want that. Unfortunately, those rating breakpoints for ilvl upgrades are really easy to get. Going into 9.1 with roughly 226 ilvl from last season, mostly from box upgrades (as I’m a Heroic raider), I’m fully capable of getting 2k rating right now with a group of people who know what they’re doing. I’m at 1850 (ish) rating and I’m just waiting for groups and keys in my guild to finish off that last bit to 2k.

So now I feel like, at the very start of the season, I’ve already progressed through most of those gear upgrade breakpoints. I have my 2k achievement to go but it feels like I got through the others too quickly. Contrary to this though, for any kind of meaningful gear progression, I’m still valor blocked and will be for quite some time. There’s a disconnect between the progression gates to upgrade the gear and the rate at which you can upgrade your gear.

There’s an opportunity for this to be better. I like the idea of working through the M+ ranks to improve my character, and I like the idea of gearing up to do harder and harder M+ keys. Gear should be meaningful in this progression and I think there needs to be some tweaks to how you advance through this, and the rate at which you can upgrade your gear. I should feel meaningfully rewarded for each dungeon run I do, but I don’t need to jump up in big power spikes every time.

Then there’s the core issue of Tyrannical being required for 2k rating. I mean, it’s not really required, see my above points about flexibility in the system and that being a good thing, but the root problem is that people weren’t enjoying Tyrannical weeks for a reason. That reason varies from person to person and I think it’s really easy to be critical and condescending of people, but the bottom line is that with so many people not enjoying something the solution isn’t to just try to force people to play it.

Some attention needs to be given to why people don’t like tyrannical. Maybe more tweaks need to be made but I think at this point, maybe the whole affix just needs to be evolved into something different. I can only speak to myself, but Tyrannical weeks tend to just make dungeon runs less interesting. Trash taking longer doesn’t feel as bad because it’s not that much longer per pull, and trash packs are part of the M+ dungeon puzzle experience, in that you can optimize the pulls, or tackle them differently per affix. Bosses, on the other hand, tend not to change with the affixes making them just take longer feels dull. Mechanics in WoW are my favourite thing, and I think no other MMO comes close to WoW on this front, but that doesn’t mean that it’s fun to go into a repetitive sequence of boss mechanics just because it’s gotten more HP. Taking a good thing and just making it longer doesn’t mean it’s going to become better.

So anyway, that’s my views on the new M+ system. There are some positives, but I think it needs work… work that we probably aren’t going to see for quite some time, unfortunately.

It doesn’t bother me at all. I typically do 10 keys at the start of the patch for 3 m+ options in the vault regardless of affixes and try to stick to the +15/16 range were the horrible combinations don’t affect the run as much.

i think it’s fine. tyrannical is fine at the key levels most people are doing

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i like the new requirements too.

My only gripe at the moment is that the devs need to playtest affix combos more in the future.

the content should be challenging but still feel good to do imo. that’s probably the true issue with tyrannical last season - it had the most difficult affix combos underlying it.

I think affixes are at the heart of the issue. They disproportionately affect trash more than bosses. That can lead Tyrannical to have tougher bosses and trash that’s as hard as some fortified weeks.

Bolstering isn’t unmanageable, but it devolves into a wipe faster than most when they go wrong, and it’s about the only affix that can make a +5 key trash hit harder than a +20 if a mistake happens.

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Everyone should be running m+ every week regardless for vault rewards so…

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this is not an easy affix combo to deal with in pug groups especially…i think people need to keep that in mind. affixes like bursting and bolstering have always been more difficult for random groups to control. Bursting got nerfed at the end of bfa, so that was a little more manageable.

I’ve run a bunch of these bolster/fort keys this week, and it’s not that easy. I think a coordinated group, or a group with chemistry can easily overcome, but if you’re in random teams…lol no they’re not easy.

I personally just hate bolstering because it’s boring and makes runs feel so sluggish. Grievous, sanguine, necrotic are difficult affixes but, those weeks never feel so time-wastey to me when running the dungeon.

Bottom line - find a static group if you want an easier time hehe

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Sure, because doing a set of 10s reduces this significantly and anyone doing 18/19 isn’t afraid of 10s no matter what the affixes are.

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Well, no one outside of the best key players lol.

They’re already timing 23s as of 2 weeks ago I think? Even 2 cheating some 20s and 21s.

My biggest gripe with the new scoring system is that it doesn’t reflect going over time nearly as much as the old raider .io score did. You can go significantly over time and it barely impacts your score. It fell off more steeply before. It makes it harder to tell at a glance who’s timing keys and who isn’t. Granted, you can still see people’s full history on the web site.

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The overall score was already pretty useless. I Abandoned it years ago in favor of times runs in the bracket. Now it’s just reinforced as a better metric.

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yes, its better. 100% better. TBH. Great system. Really impressed. M+ is all that’s keeping me playing the game right now. And I’m an avid PVPer.

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I think its a little blase to say "regardless of why people hated tyrannical…they hated it…so (essentially it has to be changed) - /paraphrase. Its already been said before in here–tyrranical bosses FORCE players to remember their mechanics. When they are too used to bosses melting before they can even DO those mechanics–they forget how to do them or somehow feel offended/inconvenienced that they now have to. That is the point of this affix. And it should be noted that dps are the ones affected the most by Tyrannical and thats why the complaints are so loud. As a tank I can’t stand fortified b/c getting owned by trash or being forced to kite everything to keep from getting owned by said trash all the time (when constant kiting runs counter to the ‘tank’ fantasy) isn’t fun for me. I do it, but it’s just as annoying to me as Tyrannical is to dps–so yes, I think both affixes are balanced.

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I just ran keys for the first time this expansion, not a fan of this set of dungeons.

This season is MUCH easier than last season, you should be able to reach your goals pretty easily.

The new scoring system makes it a bit harder (have to run twice the number of dungeons), but the difficulty is just tuned much easier (+15 now is equivalent to about +18 last season, and you get a massive +26 ilvls to compensate for only +3 keystones levels)

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