Vendors 100%. It wouldn’t bother me if they wanted to put some slot machine stuff i as well, but vendors are way better if we can only have one or the other. I like predictability.
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While I do farm mounts on occasion, I prefer the ones I can buy. I’m saving up for the bat from the warfronts right now. I so despise the island mechanics that I doubt I’ll ever get those mounts.
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Numbers show in the past that the merchant method caused players to lose the fun in the game. That’s not conjecture, thats a former WoW dev speaking on this topic at a conference over game design with the actual data to back it up. That might not be you, but you would be in the minority, and this is a for-profit business that will go where the bulk of players and therefore the money, is.
Flip over to diablo 3, where they increased drops 4x the original amount and people went absolutely crazy in love with it.
WoW has done neither, and thats the problem. You have to either have the merchants or make it rain so much that people aren’t trying to get the gear they want- they are trying to get a better version of the thing they already have and like.
WoW needs to pick a lane and get going with it.
When it comes to things like PvP, vendors were undoubtedly a better system than what we are experiencing today.
When it comes to PvE it’s a little more complicated.
The objective of many players since the games beginning has been to minimize or reduce the impact RNG has on them. Either through brute force methods or smart and clever play.
However, a lot of PvE content is repetitive by nature. It’s not designed to have players visit a single time and then never return. Random drops create a substantial reason to play through individual dungeons and raids more than a single time.
Caveat
While the badge/points system solves the problem of the one-and-done dragon slaying issue. It’s arguable even less desirable to have every player simultaneously exhaust their supply of upgrades from the vendor in the same week. Seeing participate drop off a sheer cliff after week 12 wasn’t a great product of these systems.
I like killing dragons and getting epic loot. But if I always got everything I wanted after the first kill… there goes a lot of the motivation behind the aforementioned dragon slaying.
I like the idea of loot tables. I know what finite number of things the dragon can drop, but I don’t know what exact items are going to appear in that loot window prior to slaying the dragon.
The point where this system falls apart is when the pool of potential items is too vast. When you can’t reasonably get the item you want out of the dragon even after a fair amount of repeated attempts, it’s not a good system. In modern WoW, you can translate that to not just the individual items itself but also the correct “version” of the item you want. I don’t care how much you desire and chase those perfectly stat-ed Haste/Mast boots. Some random item, from some random source, having a +10 McForge above them or with a gem socket is probably going to prove the more powerful piece of equipment, all at the complete whim of RNG.
This brings us to a point in the modern game where the dragon still has a loot table. But the number of potential permutations so vast, the number of possible combos so chaotic, I can’t reasonably target anything aside from the base items of the table. Base items, which may not even prove desirable given the nature of this loot system. Some other previously undesired item, largely unexpected, and at random could supersede the reward you were originally chasing, demolishing motivation and abruptly ending the pursuit. A wholly unsatisfying conclusion.
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I did not mind the “slot machine vendor”, on Argus.
I really did not know there were several things you could get, until I found out that a mog for cloth “littlest sister” (witch) hat exists from that vendor; Since then, my 111 holy priest still sometimes bothers to go and get some veiled argunite to try for that hat mog again.
I am not at a level to care what is ON the gear really, just the ilevel is enough for me.
But I’ve always thought:
Wouldn’t it be great if I got a 400 ilevel item, which was the best for a blood DK because I’m a blood DK? If I switched specs, that SAME item could then have stats/stuff for a frost DK, etc. Wouldn’t it make more sense if it worked that way?
[John Watson’ing Intensifies]
On topic, Vendors. All vendors all the time.
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That’s not how probability works.
You get 20%, 5 times. Each time is 20%. It doesn’t go up to 40% just because you tried again.
What you’re suggesting is that heads and tails on a coin toss is simply toss once, heads. therefore, it’s now going to be tails within your next two tosses. 50 + 50 = 100!
A mix of both is nice but definitely leaning on vendors. Felt really good when they had pvp and raid tokens where smaller armor like bracers, gloves, belt, and boots cost 1 week worth, the rest of the armor took 2 weeks worth, and weapons were 3 weeks worth. You wouldn’t only rely on these but it was great for slots you were missing out on.
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You did not fully understand the original post, but allow me to add greater detail.
1 in 5 chances, means that if you have 5 chances, you will get it at least once. They are seen as independent events, but not so when accounted for the rules governing the rng algorithm. In terms of computer coding, to ensure desired outcomes, the factor that determines drop rate in the algorithm will increase accordingly so that the statement of 1/5 drop chance holds true.
The good news is that with 8.2 you will have either option available. All the standard WQ, raid, and M+ RNG rewards will still be present. But there will also be a vendor that sells upgradeable gear for most slots.
If you love both vendors and slot machines, you must love the Azerite armor vendor ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
The only way I would be happy with rng gearing is if the loot table only took upgrades into account. If a reward is a random 395 piece and I have 395 pieces in half my slots, then it should drop something I actually need. Getting a repeat or a downgrade is annoying.
Could even give a toggle on an item we already possess but aren’t satisfied with its stats, so we could have stat optimization as part of the lottery. I would be fine with that, just give the players agency to control our progression.
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I think the scrapper system works really well. You still get the possible jackpot moments of getting that amazing BiS item, but failure also gives you a concrete currency, in the form of Titan Residuum, to purchase targetted pieces.
Basically, instead of grinding currency, you’re grinding RNG items, which you can convert into currency if they’re not what you need. It’s both systems at once.
Im ok with having to run a raid or dungeon 238 times to get that epic sword or trinket. Thats cool. Its what end game is about.
What really annoys me, is the WQ/Emis drops. Those should be vendor choice.
I mean, if ive got a 400 chest, and a 370 shoulder/head, and the stupid quest drops me a 390 chest, well thats just stupid and very annoying.
Gear should be earned not bought. Doing easy content to get badges, points, whatever is not earning it either. I love the unpredictability of the current system. You should never be able to get a full set of BIS gear.
RNG has it’s place, but I like to have vendors which give me specific goals that I can work toward, whether that be a piece of gear I’ve had very poor luck on or cosmetics. Ultimately it’s a balance.
That said, to me there is no excuse for there not to be bad luck protection on every item in game. I think it’s absurd that you can farm things for years and never see it.
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Casting my vote for vendors
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Vendors are boring.
Loot falls from the damn sky these days. Also boring.
Prefer no vendors and less loot overall.
People that dont get a drop in raid should get a gold bonus at least. Otherwise it is a waste of time. No tier sets was another horrible flaw in their desgin, almost nothing to look forward to or work for.
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If ending the game is your goal, that seems a great way to do it.