Do you feel safe on these forums?

[Laurensa-wyrmrest-accord (Laurensa)]

I played a Roe lady who shamelessly idolized Meriwyb because how can you not.

[Serph-wyrmrest-accord (Serph)]

I haven’t done Stormblood yet, so I’m super excited to get there

but currently in the 45-50 hell on Balmung and I want to die

[Bruticus-wyrmrest-accord (Bruticus)]

My personal room was Maelstrom-themed with a Merlwyb portrait as the focus

Because you have to have goals

[Kornbredkhan-dalaran (Kornbredkhan)]

A very real and serious question here. I know a lot of people who post here, and a lot who don’t, and I hear very varied opinions on how positive or negative the forum environment is here.

So I want to ask, do you feel safe here?

My issue with the forums is not the concern with my own safety, but for the safety of other players. I’ve noticed players harass, intervene with the intent to offend, and use fallacies for their arguments such as: The appeal to ignorance, the ad populum fallacy, and fallacies of inconsistency, and or other illogical fallacies. I tend to take a philosophers approach to addressing issues, concerns, as it actively addresses various (subjective) points of views with an attempt to an unbiased opinion.
Countless times have I seen other participants, gamers, and or players ridicule someone simply because they disagreed with them. Or they’ve stated, “You are bad, because of this, this, and this.” Which was using the: Post hoc ergo propter hoc approach: that states “Since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X.” It is often shortened simply to the post hoc fallacy.

What is most conformed to is the fallacy of ridicule, which individuals will post: irrelevant content to the initial argument or statement,
Deliberately attempt to change the initial subject,
Take the ad hominem approach and deliver a personal attack to sway the audience,
Or they will actively attempt to change the subject by posting amongst themselves with hopes of: ridiculing the initial poster by discrediting the argument by the usage the ad populam fallacy (Appealing to an audience).

In the spirit of this post, I’d also ask that we try to avoid fights with people on this thread, no matter what opinions are voiced.

I made a similar post on the Moon Guard forums and I had an irrational response by various people, but it was not something that I did not expect. My argument was a target towards the toxicitiy, and elitist behavior: and offered a conclusion of ideas to help prevent it. I’m sure you can find it if you searched for it. However I will highlight that it is the people like you and I that care for the community, that are actively attacked simply for attempting to speak up for change, or request a hearing on some on a theory that would aim to aid others.

I personally would like to thank these people for their reponse to the initial post:

It’s a very legitimate question and I absolutely understand how a hostile environment can make people feel unsafe, even online. Words matter, culture matters, and I dearly hope that Wyrmrest Accord is as welcoming and pleasant a place to everyone as it has been to me.

The WRA community has felt very welcoming, and unified against the advocates of toxicity. I am happy that you personally feel welcomed.

I do feel safe, yes! Mainly because by this point I’m at least familiar with all you lovely people, and most people are very nice here.

I am happy that you feel safe, and know that if you ever need anything I am here to help you.

Sort of?

The forums have given me a lot of grief over the years. I’ve had stalkers, harassment, threats and obsessives because of my posts here. Heck, I still get them more than I’d care to. But chances are good that anyone who would do that over a forum post was always going to do it, so I don’t know if the forums are to blame for that.

If you are a victim of any harassment, please do contact me. I will defend any individual that is a victim of bullying, harassment, and or stalking to the best of my abilities. It is crucial to undermine the arguments of those that would quarrel with the intent to ridicule others into submission. If you ever feel hopeless, note that I will be willing to offer assistance in anyway that I am able.

I know folks can get heated, but I guess I also have a lot of faith in the Wyrmrest community to, in the end, even out against the more… extreme, hostile stuff, and be reasonable and fair.

I do not speak for the entirety of the community, nor have I appealed to a position of power to do so. I will happily state that I am willing to help you reignite your faith in the community, and if not that-then perhaps simply make a friend.

There are opinions I have and would love to bounce off of people, but don’t post here because the vocals would probably misinterpret me.

I am happy to hear any of your ideas, concepts, or theories. I will not take offense to even the weirdest things you wish to bounce off of me.

Mentioning these topics will generally get the reaction any of you reading this will expect - not a positive one. As a ‘community’, most of the people here try to shut that sort of thing down because we don’t want it to fester here and cause more problems - and it can come off as ‘forum cabal-y’.

In order to prevent a forum cabal, it is important to remain open-minded, unbias, and logically critical that highlights constructive ways to overcome issues as a community. In essence: Respectful communication is vital. We as adherents to the community should advocate for positive changes, without the fear of misjudgment, scrutiny, or an augmentation of a singular threat. I am more than happy to support any individual willing to speak up with the intent to better the community, so long as:

1. They can remained unbiased.
2. They can align their conclusions to all view points with the party involved.
3. And can be respectful through the entirety of it all.
4. (There may be more missing here).

We’re just a large-ish group of people that have similar opinions in a lot of scenarios.

There is a lot you can learn about people simply by voice chatting with them.

In my experience, “elitist” is in the same category as “passive aggressive” in being something people intend as an insult for people who insist on a standard of conversation.

The definition of elitism is subjective to each individual, and it is something that could often times lead to a debate on its own.

I’ve seen toxic environments, and they ruin people.

I agree, they’re not so appealing.

Conclusion: If anyone feels unsafe, harassed, ridiculed, bullied, and or threatened feel free to contact myself as I am willing to offer a safe haven for anyone.
My Discord: Kornbredkhan#1337

[Banrok-wyrmrest-accord (Banrok)]

Aren’t you that one guy on Moon Guard who’s tried to pull Varisnax esque guild scams before?

Actually yeah, I remember seeing you in a MG thread, you apparently schmoozed up a bunch of guild leaders, got to an officer position to “help manage” and then promptly took everything in the gbank, kick everyone you could, and place apparently racial slurs in the officers notes of the few you couldn’t before leaving.

[Banrok-wyrmrest-accord (Banrok)]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/addressing-roleplay-elitism/30726

Here it is, take a read through this

[Zunde-wyrmrest-accord (Zunde)]

[Feyahni-wyrmrest-accord (Feyahni)]

Aren’t you that one guy on Moon Guard who’s tried to pull Varisnax esque guild scams before?

Actually yeah, I remember seeing you in a MG thread, you apparently schmoozed up a bunch of guild leaders, got to an officer position to “help manage” and then promptly took everything in the gbank, kick everyone you could, and place apparently racial slurs in the officers notes of the few you couldn’t before leaving.

Well damn!

That’s one hell of a twist. It did put me off a little that someone would come into the thread quoting from the bible of Wikipedia’s logical fallacy page and throwing out as many of their names as possible all while seeming to assume some type of position of authority or power to “help” various strangers through a variety of difficulties. But man…if what you say is true, then this guy’s agenda is over before it begins. Lol!

[Kornbredkhan-dalaran (Kornbredkhan)]

pull Varisnax esque guild scams before?

I have been accused of joining a single guild with the intent on destroying it.
Yet when I produced a ticket from Blizzard + offered to livestream a conversation with a Blizzard GM that proved that I did not even possess the ability to kick, I was refuted by: “You’re just hacking Blizzard, or photoshopping it to prove your innocence.”
How do you attempt to prove innocence to a group that appeals to ignorance, and assumes you’re guilty of something specifically, because they dislike you.
As an example:
“You’re guilty no matter what, because I just don’t like you.”
Or
“My friend said X, so you’re guilty of Y, and there’s nothing you can say to prove that you didn’t do X.”
Either way you’re assumed guilty, and therefore cannot prove innocence.
Evidence they presented: Was from a battletag that was never associated with my name, my credit card info, and or my IP.

and place apparently racial slurs

I do not adhere to racism, sexism, prejudice, discrimination, inequality, and or racial intolerance. I am strictly a supporter of equality, as I personally will treat everyone as my equals regardless of: Financial status, appearance, disability, sexuality, gender preference, religious belief, cultural background, education, and or opinion. It is the philosophers approach to understanding why people do what they do, and questioning everything including our own beliefs or opinions.

Here it is, take a read through this

Thank you for my post. This post is subjective to my point of view.

It did put me off a little that someone would come into the thread quoting from the bible of Wikipedia’s logical fallacy page

Its the easiest to explain to people, yep.

while seeming to assume some type of position of authority or power to “help” various strangers through a variety of difficulties.

I am not assuming any position of power, but I am willing to help people to the best of my abilities.

if what you say is true, then this guy’s agenda is over before it begins. Lol!

Can you make reference to the agenda, and or explain it to me?

[Feyahni-wyrmrest-accord (Feyahni)]

Can you make reference to the agenda, and or explain it to me?

The agenda of doing to guilds what Banrok is recalling. Granted, I can’t prove or deny that beyond the shadow of a doubt personally, so I’m not asserting as much simply because I can’t prove it ISN’T true. Just wanted to say that before you bring up the good old argument from ignorance.

Though reading a bit of that linked thread, it appears that the MG community identified you as someone named Rengshaw? As a long-time lurker of the MG forums, I seem to remember hearing that name in a very negative light.

[Ruyn-wyrmrest-accord (Ruyn)]

Whereas Wildstar @&$^ the bed then shut down

Wildstar lasted far longer than most of the doomsayers predicted. I am certainly not arguing that it had many faults and multiple opportunities to fix itself. If anything it disappoints me that there was so much squandered potential.

[Kornbredkhan-dalaran (Kornbredkhan)]

The agenda of doing to guilds what Banrok is recalling. Granted, I can’t prove or deny that beyond the shadow of a doubt personally, so I’m not asserting as much simply because I can’t prove it ISN’T true.

First I’d like to state that I do appreciate your response, as it brings up great constructive points, and offers me feedback. If I ever do come off as insulting, or daunting, I’d like to make notice that it is furthest from my intention. I will never directly attack a specific individual, as I believe it is an illogical fallacy in itself, and prevents me from actually accomplishing anything.

Though reading a bit of that linked thread, it appears that the MG community identified you as someone named Rengshaw?

That is correct I am Rengshaw. I am a person that has 14 years of MoonGuard history, 6 of which is in a negative light due to the misconceptions, lack of communication, and inability to provide evidence for claims, mainly being the belief on hearsay that has been replicated due to a biased approach on a variety of topics.

As a long-time lurker of the MG forums, I seem to remember hearing that name in a very negative light.

I do admit to certain faults in the original post, posted on the MG forums, such as: Being disrespectful, toxic, and leaving a guild ICLY and OOCLY which led to its ultimate downfall due to disagreements on RP.
I will however state that it is important to judge a person based off of the nature of their actions, and ensuring it is actually them.
The issues that I had on MG were of the following:

• I had a long history of being disrespectful ICLY and sometimes OOCLY. Which did not work in my favor. Which I have admitted to and apologized for.
• I had various individuals impersonating me, stalking me, and harassing me in order to defame my credibility in anything that I stated, or offered evidence for.
• People had found my real life Facebook, Instagram, and used my pictures to bully me, and or insult me. One of the messages I received was, “You’re a fat loser, lose some weight, because no girl would ever want you.”
• There may be some more that I have not added here, please don’t hold it against me if I did not post it.

A lot of the arguments that I had on the Moon Guard forums were against people that didn’t actually read the entirety of my arguments, specifically because they were extremely long. A variety of people didn’t actually have my perspective on topics, nor were willing to adhere to the evidence that I presented because it was considered to be falsified, because it was coming from me. How do you falsify information that is live streamed from a Blizzard conversation, happening LIVE?

But if you look at the basis of my initial post, I am asking for a united effort to provide a constructive effort to fight toxicity, and provide ideas in ways to do so. That turned into a: “You did X, therefore do not uphold the credibility to talk about Y.”

I seem to remember hearing that name in a very negative light.

My concern isn’t necessary about my old reputation, nor do I really care about how certain people view me. What matters to me is that these certain individuals do not entirely blacklist other people for whatever reason, harass them, troll them, bully them, etc…
What I want to do is to safeguard people from toxic environments. If that is what you would consider to be an agenda, than so be it.

There is only one thing I am asking of people: Promote 1 Random act of Kindness per day.

Misconceptions
I am not asking to join a specific individuals guild,
I do not want to be an officer in someones guild, community, or Discord server,
If anyone wants to make a donation, make it to a random player, not to me.
I do not require any form of support such as subscribing to my YT account or watching my livestreams, this is purely to help people on an individual basis (which is something people can do on their own).

My question to the reader: Am I in the wrong? I’m simply trying to promote positivity, kindness, and fun in a video game.

[Laurensa-wyrmrest-accord (Laurensa)]

I just thought the offer to personally defend Enekie was really funny.

[Kornbredkhan-dalaran (Kornbredkhan)]

I just thought the offer to personally defend Enekie was really funny.

I don’t know the player, as this is my first time ever speaking with them. Though if they are a person that is bullied, I will happily come to their defense. Especially if it is something that I personally witness.
No one should ever be bullied, PERIOD.
Here are a few videos to see a different perspective, (In case you haven’t been bullied).

We may assume that trolling people, or making fun of people in the game isn’t that bad of a thing, but we can really effect someone negatively IRL, so we should do what we can to make their lives better. So hence the “Pass on one Random act of Kindness per day.”
Someone may be feeling suicidal and here you come to run them through a bunch of dungeons, give them bags, and simply be nice. You just made a friend, and possibly made them smile.
That’s what I advocate.

[Laurensa-wyrmrest-accord (Laurensa)]

No no no, you’re missing the point. Enekie is perfectly good at deconstructing arguments and is bound to read your volunteering as white-knighting. You lone, valiant logic hero.

[Banrok-wyrmrest-accord (Banrok)]

The fact that you take up gigantic swathes of threads with pointless purple prose and unnecessary speeches to seem intelligent and add fake smile emoji to your sentences in a robotic way send up a thousand red flags to me, the fact you were recognized by people in that server and promptly everyone there hissed at you with contempt, combined with you posting your link in a creepy Internet scammer manner in multiple pages don’t help with you seeming ingenuine, not to mention you seemingly slipped here with the hopes you wouldn’t be recognized.

So if you don’t mind, I don’t think anyone should trust you.

[Feyahni-wyrmrest-accord (Feyahni)]

I finally finished going through that linked thread. Also saw some screenshots that were linked there. Saw a LOT more of you abusing your ability to copy/paste logical fallacy info in response to just about every person who engaged you. Googled the name Rengshaw to find even more accounts of scams you’ve pulled on people and guilds in the past. Saw you dodging direct questions in the linked thread while deflecting arguments back onto those asking the questions and trying to manipulate the conversation in the direction you preferred it to go. Saw you claiming to have proof you never presented.

Then I came back and saw your responses here, which scream insincerity. No, there is nothing wrong with promoting positivity and goodwill. There are just so many things setting off alarms and making you seem untrustworthy. You may not be asking to be a part of anyone’s guild or get any gold or anything in this thread. But what you are doing is painting us a pretty picture of who you are and what your goals are…the same thing you’ve done in the past according to the little research I just did. Ingratiating yourself to a community is the first step in repeating your past behavior which, by the way, no one is obligated to forgive you for. When you do awful things, you own those behaviors and respect that people may never trust you again.

On the topic of this thread though, I feel safer posting here than I have in the past. At times the forum can feel a bit intimidating, but I’m trying to separate how much of that is actually true from my own anxiety and hesitation in my mind.

[Zunde-wyrmrest-accord (Zunde)]

Purple prose give’s me a rash.

[anon12270257]

is that why you went from a panda into a velf, Zunde?

[Zunde-wyrmrest-accord (Zunde)]

Elfitus.

It’s terminal.