Its like how Dragonflight tried to separate the life domain from order when the two often work well together.
Storms, volcanic eruptions, metamorphosis, and evolution are all seemingly “chaotic” processes in nature that serve a larger purpose.
It feels like Blizz’s obsession with order and chaos is taken to extremes.
to be fair, a lot of the seeds of this convo were sown in legion. generally, light/arcane/nature magics are copacetic with each other and their agents were usually fine to cooperate. sometimes the magics worked ok when used simultaneously, other times not (this is one of the most inconsistent parts of lore but usually isn’t a big deal). death/void/fel magic is usually what’s thought of as “dark” magic
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Yeah very true. I loved Legion, but I do fault the ending (alongside some of Chronicles) with starting off this new era. The Light and Void as chaos and order was so bizarre.
If you’re referring to me… then no, I am not proof of that. I never said I was excited about pantheons. In fact, I would be okay with the 1st possibility in my list, or at most I could be interested in the 4th possibility in my list because it would expand the lore and give us something new to do instead of only repeating what Sargeras was doing with fel.
I would tend to disagree on both counts. None of the Titans have ever seemed to use much arcane magic, and Norgannon who was described as being a steward of it barely ever used much. The titans never seemed to want anybody to become an arcane elemental, or force anyone to use arcane magic all the time. We’ve seen Titans and titankeepers use Holy magic about triple as often as any arcane ever. And fel magic…similarly, doesn’t seem to be fundamental to the twisting nether at all. As I describe in my 4th Possibility at the start of this thread…it is entirely possible that Fel is just life magic being shoved in the direction of the twisting nether and the twisting nether didn’t want it there.
But back to your identification of arcane and fel. Why is it that Sargeras was perfectly willing to use Shadow and Undeath magic alongside the chaos? And while I mentioned above that the Eternals of shadowland don’t seem like a pantheon to me…even if I temporarily grant their status as a hypothetical… they don’t all use Necromantic or Undeath magic either? They use Shadow and Shadow… and Nature and Arcane magic. Not sure what Zovaal may have used while he was the previous arbiter…but he eventually switched to using shadow magic also. So that’s 3 different shadow users and one nature and one arcane. If that is what we are supposed to accept as “Death Pantheon” … then they sure don’t use death magic. Seems like arcane is not an appropriate description of the Titan Pantheon either.
According to the new chronicles there is a first one of disorder, so they are likely the progenitor of demons
There seems to be a First One for all the major cosmic forces, with the 7th one disappearing one day while the other first ones were fighting amongst themselves.
Could the Zereths themselves be First Ones?
Azeroth’s name seems almost like A-Zereth and has had it’s Magic declared to not be First One in design by Vyranoth when she and the rest of the Aspects were blessed by her.
Of course since the same song given by Azeroth is played in K’aresh it would seem another First One not in a Cosmic Realm is there waiting to be killed sending it to the Void to become it’s Zereth just like the ones that Saezurah mentioned probably did.
Sounds like the Great Dark Beyond is the Zereths native home universe and each one murdered and sent to an Elemental Plane turns into a Cosmic Force!
K’aresh is the solution awaiting it’s opportunity: the next player in the game between Zereths.
The act of killing a Zereth sending it to an Elemental Plane to turn it into a Cosmic Realm reminds me of Gloomseeker Yarga’s words in Nazjatar:
“With their dying breaths, they cursed the world.”
Makes Yogg-Saron who uttered that the shadow of his corpse will choke the land for all eternity and the Void’s very nature suspicious.
The K’thir Cultists of Azshara(unlike the megalomaniacal Cultists of N’Zoth) also mention sleeping with the goal of awakening as does the Echo of Y’Shaarj…
Saezurah says “Her dreams sing beneath the surface. Quiet now, but her voice will awaken the others.”
Xal’atath plans to awaken the First Ones by killing Azeroth(that’s also N’Zoth’s goal showing why Magni mentions Azeroth dying). Us stopping her and killing K’aresh sending it to the Void which will awaken the Zereths closest to it.
K’aresh the Goddess of Night was reaching through the Cultists of Azshara’s Forces as well as through Y’Shaarj I do believe. N’Zoth does not want her or Zereth Mortis(who being the God of Death was likely reaching through it’s Avatars Yogg-Saron and Mueh’zala who calls itself Night’s friend and father of Sleep and son of Time) awakening and would rather wake Azeroth up instead.
Since we are fighting K’aresh in The War Within judging from the Ethereal Raid Icons that means Zereth Mortis(the blind Goddess of Death) and Zereth Umbrae(God of Shadow) are the Villains of Midnight after the Void kills her on arrival.
The hour of her third death ushers in Mortis and Umbrae’s coming both rushing to the Void from hearing her death scream forcing the Void Lords to panic and invade Azeroth to wake her up so that she can fight the two of them.
I get the feeling from context that “zereth” is a place name element, not a personal name element.
In that case perhaps the actual names of the First Ones could be Mortis, Umbrae, Ordos, Tumultus, Vitae, Lumen and Nox(applying the Latin theme to the word Nox) with Zereth being the name of their resting places?
Since it seems as if the Void fears Night/Nox(and thanks to the Nathrezim probably thinks that Elune is Nox when infact she is a different Deity) and doesn’t want Mortis and Umbrae coming knocking on their doors could it be that Umbrae is not in the Void?
But where could Umbrae be?.. Perhaps Torghast explaining why the Shadowlands has the name Shadow in it?
Could Zovaal’s cruel practices as Arbiter have been an attempt to make sure Shadow-aligned Souls go to Shadow while leaving Death-aligned Souls purely in the Realms of Death?..
In that case I could see Umbrae and Mortis’s defeats revealing the natures of this and convincing the Eternal Ones that the Realms of Shadow need their own Arbiter and collectors as keeping them the same is a flaw in reality.
Bastion quickly turns from a Realm of removing Bad Memories to becoming a Realm of removing Shadow-Elemental Energies from the host and shipping them off to the Realms of Shadow. The Temple of Devotion and Foresworn Territories are shipped off to the Realms of Shadow to serve as comfort to Souls of Shadow within the Realms of Shadow.
The Ember Ward breaks off from Revendreth which joins the Realms of Shadow as the Ember Ward purifies Sinful Souls of Shadow-taint then initiates the torture of atonement to harvest purified Sin Anima(probably looks like Broker Anima when purified of Shadow considering how materialistic the Brokers are) with the aid of the Stoneborn and Brokers.
Revendreth will serve as the Realm of Shadow’s mirror of the Ember Ward and harvest Sin-Shadow just as the Ember Ward harvests Sin-Death.
That is how I imagine the fallout of Midnight considering my theory on the First Ones.
Replacing the phrase “since we know” with other declarative phrases is not helping you avoid the non-sequiturs and deceitfulness. You’re repeatedly contradicting the lore or changing the meaning to something entirely different from what actually happened. You’re worse than the chronicle 4 authors, which is shocking.
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This is why whenever I use something like “since we know” it is either something that is actually common knowledge, or I use it in reference to something I had just previously brought up and provided evidence for. For example the posts I have done recently involving the Xal’atath questline in BFA and why it makes sense that the Horde PC does it. I make reference to how the Horde getting the canonical clear of CoS made sense even back in BFA via the horde actually getting the dagger and giving it to Sylvanas. Who later gives it to Nathanos who gives it to Azshara.
How would the horde PC know about the now empty dagger if the Alliance PC did that questline, or what reason would the Horde have to do CoS otherwise?
Not sure why you are talking about BFA in a topic about possible Pantheons of Disorder. But at any rate… yes, avoiding dishonesty would be best. It is infuriating to constantly see the Yvena user spew out whole paragraphs claiming things opposite to what actually happened in game.
Yep. Although maybe even more specific of a location than you thought…I’d have to follow up with what you were interpreting by place. Because…while we cannot say that Saezurah was infallible, we can at least say that she “believes” that the word Zereth is from the First One vocabulary and the nearest definitions in translation would be either “cornerstone” or “keystone”. So not a province name but more like how we point to something and can say “elbow” as an abstract location, apparently Zereth is like that. Cornerstone of Death, Keystone of Death. Then, if we want to briefly pause and step out of the game to look at the word in real life…apparently Zereth exists as a word in Hebrew with a translation of “to bind together”. That doesn’t mean it must apply in the video game, and since the other words used alongside Zereth in the video game are not using hebrew root words, we could certainly ignore it if need be. But there is usage of a word zereth in proto-italic borrowed from the Proto-Indo-European where zereth means to lean against. That is not strictly Latin like Umbra and Vitae and Mortis…but Latin is a descendant language of PIE so… shrug. Then if you look out into other fields like mathematics, there is a slightly different word “zeroth” which should be pronounced like “zero - th” which refers to the initial position of a sequence that later ends up with elements being numbered. The writers of shadowlands could have used that as “inspiration” only…and not a direct translation; so it just sounds a little mathematical or mysterious or part of a system at its origin. So maybe we’re better off thinking of Zereth Vitae/Umbra/Mortis as “cornerstone of death” “keystone of death” “place where death is bound to the origin” …swapping out life and shadow etc for the rest of the forces.
I wasn’t… I was using it as an example. Which is what I said in the post.