Discussion: Skill-Based Difficulty, Time-Based Difficulty, and Value Preservation

[Qyune-exodar]

@Marohnak-llane

Would you be willing to sit (somewhat AFK) for about 15 minutes to kill Sha of Anger a thousand times if its Heavenly Cloud Serpent didn’t exist?

No, if Sha of Anger did not drop a mount, then I would not even sit there for 10 seconds. At that point, it is just the same as any other mob that I don’t stop and kill. I also would not raid if there were no loot rewards. I would not complete any M+ if there were no rewards. I would not PvP if there were no rewards. I would not level characters if there were no levels. I would not complete fights in ridiculous manners if there were no achievements. I wouldn’t taste all the foods of each expansion if there were no rewards.

Measuring the value of content in a game by whether you would participate without a reward seems to an odd way to measure anything in any game – especially an MMO. The entire concept in any niche of the game is that we either do something enough times without RNG to finally earn a reward, or we do something enough times with RNG to finally earn a reward. We run raids and M+ content in hopes of eventually getting whatever it is we are chasing (whether it is gear or KSM). We grind reputation so that we can finally get to exalted (again, for whatever the reward may be). So, yes, if you remove the mount from Sha of Anger, I will move on to the next bit of content that does have a reward.

@Marohnak-llane

This is the general kind of things I’ve heard in the past after telling my attempts to other people. I’m not trying to be mean here, but I can sort of understand why people see it this way.

Honestly, if they meant that in demeaning way toward you, then I hate that for you. If you find something as silly as RP walking up and down Eastern Kingdoms to be the most fun you have in WoW, then you do that. Who cares what someone thinks of what you find fun in a game. As long as your bills are paid, your RL responsibilities are met, and your life is sorted, then enjoy the game the way you want.

Now, conversely, if you hate leveling as well as farming for mounts, and you are leveling more alts to farm more mounts, then maybe you need to reconsider how you play the game.

@Marohnak-llane

With that in mind, this is why I’m saying that skill-based difficulty > time-based difficulty. Something that is hard and challenging will effectively takes time to master as well, less for certain people and more for others. And even if you don’t end up becoming the next Beethoven or a world first raider, the time you invested doing those things reflect the rewards you got, and as long as you did it in a healthy way, nothing is lost.

I think I get what you are trying to tell me. You think that Skill-Based Difficulty > Time-Based Difficulty, because of the following:

1. Some people don’t need rewards to play the game (they just need the challenge)
2. Skill-Based Difficulty improves your skills
3. You can become a better player
4. You can become a more social player
5. You might even make friends

In response, I am saying that there are many players within the community who:

1. Cannot participate in mid to high level Skill-Based Difficulty content
2. May not want to improve their skills
3. May prefer long-term style gameplay and rewards
4. Do not want to socialize
5. Are not looking to make online friends

Ultimately, it does not matter why you see Skill-Based Difficulty content superior to Time-Based Difficulty content, because of the exact same reason it does not matter why someone else sees Time-Based Difficulty content superior to Skill-Based Difficulty content. This is an MMO with millions of players with varying strengths and weaknesses, and there should be content available for all. Therefore, it is necessary for the communal value of items / content to be preserved within the game as they transition from current content to legacy content.

@Marohnak-llane

But feeling forced to have alts to have more chance to get something my main character cannot get just because of RNG shouldn’t be the main thing that drives me to play alts.

If this is not fun for a player, then they should not do it. “Feeling obligated” or “feeling forced” is wonderful phrase that allows a player to shed the responsibility for their own actions. If I “feel forced” to level up an alt to for my raid team to have the perfect composition (for example, in case we need to switch out for bosses during progression), then maybe I am participating at a level that is not enjoyable for me. So, the natural response would be for me to either stop entirely or find a group that is more on my level of intensity.

Players who play a game at a portion and to a point of their own dissatisfaction should not be able to dictate what other players find fun.

@Marohnak-llane

All things considered: I personally don’t care too much if some value is lost overtime by making certain things easier for other players.

Again, this is why the preservation of communal value system is so important. It protects the content from being devalued from players who do not care if the value is lost – keeping in mind that this value contains other players’ time and effort from a community standpoint.