They weren’t normal modes.
That’s fine it was still broken down by fight so when you see the same trend on all heroics it’s not being skewed by some people wiping early fights.
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Either way, the data someone posted in here is the reality.
10 is easier. It’s also easier to get 10 goofballs together and wipe a lot than it is 25. The best and most prepared teams in the world do 25.
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And once again if we were just looking at the early fights that would be a valid point but when we’re looking at later fights that those goofballs wouldn’t even be attempting and the same trends apply then we can say 10 mans are harder.
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You can attempt any heroic in the game except Sinestra without doing any previous so I’m not sure what you’re even saying.
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Those numbers only included groups with actual kills so I guess there could be some in there that were wiping 50 times on magmaw before their kill. But it’s pretty tin foil hatty to think that that was the case on every boss on heroic.
Like you noted sinestra requires chogall heroic so you seem to claiming that there were significant numbers of people who cleared previous heroics then intentionally wiped for hours on sinestra just to skew stats for a wowhead article they didn’t know would be written.
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My guild is all doing 10m on our alts that we don’t know how to play.
Is all you guys do is pug?
Early 10m cata content killed guilds. Mechanics can’t be ignored when you don’t have enough people that is capable of doing the mechanics because the tools weren’t abundant enough.
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It’s harder to organize 25 people than 10 in a guild raid too lol
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Did your 10 man alt groups kill sinestra in the time period those stats are from?
Which only applies for the raid leader/recruiters and isn’t directly relevant to most of the raid.
It’s attempts by boss lol we’re definitely inflating the pull counts on earlier heroics by being bad. I’m sure it’s much more common that people are alt raiding in 10 than 25.
True, there are zero mechanics that require raid coordination.
Here’s an interesting question
where do the people who say 10 man is harder get it from?
Numerically its provable that it’s easier
Anecedotally, its more likely that a 25 man guild has ran 10 man than the opposite, so being a 10 man guild and having never done 25…they don’t know?
Logistically, its obviously harder to operate a 25 man raid
there doesn’t seem to be any substance behind it other than “everyone knows its harder”, remember when everyone knew the raids were post nerf 2 weeks ago? I sure do
Remember when you were suppose play arms in wotlk until togc where fury outscaled it? Completely wrong “known” wisdom is like this community’s bread and butter
How can you trust the opinion of someone who hasn’t done the content & don’t know what patch they are even on?
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It like how many people keep reiterating my statements. Over and over again. It’s very funny. Yes, that’s what I said. The system did not last. This is part of the reason.
All players deserve to be rewarded for their efforts. The benefit of having 25 players is a reduction on managing multiple groups for larger guilds and the ability to field a wider variety of raid composition with more roles getting to shine and higher support for stacking roles. There’s definitely benefits of 25m alongside the added requirement of there being more people. More people is not inherently a downside nor is it only downside.
There’s a ton of “No True Scotsman” fallacies in this thread to basically discount and insult people because you disagree with the information being presented. That’s just sad.
Progress on my server. There are 3 guilds with 10m 13/13 heroic clears. There are 5 guilds with 25m 13/13 heroic clears.
The server first clears were 25m. Of the raids, 25m clears happened on May 30 and May 31, while the first 13/13 10m heroic didn’t happen until June 6.
If you look at all the clears, you have 143 heroic 13/13 25m clears, and you have 165 13/13 10m clears.
Now, this could simply be a case of sample size. But it seems to me from my perspective that 10m is harder than 25m based on general completion rates, wipe counts, and population sizes. It’s really easy to look at the total clears of 13/13 heroic and say “There are more 10m clears than 25m” but it’s not clears proportional to the number of players clearing it either.
3575 total players getting through 25m compared to 1650 in 10m. If 10m was indeed easier, you would expect the number of 10m 13/13 clears to be much larger then.
It’s not like I am saying that 10m is “OMG SO INSANELY HARDER!” But it IS harder by enough of a margin to be relevant. Everyone likes to look at the successes in a vaccuum. “Completed fights are quicker, etc etc” but the steeper learning curve, the larger number of wipes, and the relative lower clear count by population size tell a different story.
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Source: I made this up because it supports my argument.
The alt argument is funny. As if cata classes take more than 2 hours to pick up for a good player thats already 13/13H on a main and alt. And besides, youve already progged all the fights, so wipe counts should be lower second time around.
Anyone being honest should realize 10M is harder
I can’t dispute this because your server is dunemaul which isn’t a classic server. I’ll compare it to my server for the sake of it.
In 25 man, the #1 guild on the server cleared on day 2, the rank 24 clear in the world. In Icecrown, they were #19 in the world
In 10 man, the #1 guild on the server cleared on the 6th of june, ranking 72 in the world, in icc 25 heroic, they ranked 1229 in the world
The guilds are such a different caliber that it would be insane to rank them as rivals, but you are doing so by claiming that 10 is harder than 25 because 10 took longer to clear
how could you ever prove this? completed fights quicker is just factual, steeper learning curve is not. There’s no actual numbers here
I want you guys to point to a specific fight and tell me why its harder, with numbers, if you can’t get numbers, tell me where the opinion that its harder came from
No it’s not. Maybe get more than 25 people in your guild.
Whitemane. It’s not like it would be hard to look up my name on Warcraft logs. Only two characters exist with my exact name, both priests, and since Anathema hasn’t existed since TBC Classic it’s safe to say that is one.
It’s pretty hard to take your criticisms seriously when you act this disingenuous about my arguments.
The literal wipe counts. They exist. Just because it’s not a metric that works in your favor doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or that it’s irrelevant. I also said it in my post so I have to just assume at this point you’re not here to discuss the situation, you’re here to debate and argue. Not interested.
I actually agree with what you’re saying but I hate that you used this. This was correct. No one should be any warrior dps tell togc.
you know what’s funny? whitemane 10 man guilds are so bad that the guild that got #2 in progress in 25 man got the 10 man A WEEK LATER, and number 2 “GGEZ” is a guild that didn’t kill heroic lich king for 10 weeks, meanwhile those 25 man guilds that cleared in the first day cleared LK HC in 1 day. The progress on your realm you used to discern if 25 man or 10 man is harder was between 2 top 20 guilds in the world and a guild ranked in the 1000s
how dare i challenge the almight amidentus on the forum called classic cata discussion
strange that you can say its a “bad sample” to things that don’t fit your narrative, but yet use the wipe sample as evidence later on
“i’m not interested in being told i’m wrong, i know i’m right, after all, i have killed 3 heroic bosses in 3 resets”
Completely and utterly ignored my question about what boss is harder btw, couldn’t even name one because you know i’ll dissect it and you have no idea because you are progging the easy bosses in 10 man and have never touched 25 man and have only done most of the content on normal
Its impossible to falsify your opinions because you refuse to have any
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