WOW is a PVE game with PvP as an afterthought. Expecting PvP to be the primary focus is absurd.
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So clearly some of y’all don’t understand how balancing works. Realistically it parallels economics, so you can either balance the very top end or theoretical hps or dps. This comes with a few issues difficult healers are balanced on their ceiling then which most the player base will never achieve anything close to it(also including things like latency). The other option is to balance from say the bottom 30 or even 50% but easy to perform dps(looking at you bm hunter) then become abundantly weaker reason being is they’d be seen as a top performer while difficult specs that most players cannot handle like disc would be miles ahead because it would be balanced around doing even numbers with other healers in the 50th percentile and lower.
I am a 384 disc priest and not to sound like a weakling but right now after the DPS nerf it takes to long to world quest. Makes me not want to play. I could go shadow but I don’t have 3 pieces of extra azurite laying around with BiS shadow traits…
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You don’t need BiS Shadow gear to world quest…
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I agree it feels slower but I mean Disc is a Healer so it’s kind of expected to be relatively slow at questing, I would assume it’s still faster than questing as Holy for example (haven’t actually tryed to quest as Holy but I’ve read its slow).
On the plus side Shadow feels a lot better so I just quest as Shadow now. Actually Priest is the only class where I used to quest as Healer, on all my other healers I just switch to DPS to get my quests done faster.
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yeah, its much slower now to quest as disc. Shadow could work but like I said my shadow pieces lower my ilvl to much unless I re-spec the traits for questing, and then that doesn’t work either until I get a whole second set. If only azerite allowed the ability to set traits for each specialization. So, when we switched specializations we could make new choices which saved from spec to spec. Honestly, disc is design to be decent at DPS. Just kind of sad my resto druid could out dps my disc priest right now if at the same ilvl.
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To be fair, before the nerf Disc was the lowest DPS class in the whole game (including other healers) assuming similar gear and skill levels (the only reason Disc was outdpsing anyone is due to a huge gear/skill difference). Holy could easily beat Disc in DPS prior to the damage nerf assuming both classes were going all out DPS. The main benefit Disc had is the ability to put out their DPS while healing at the same time, something the other healers can’t really do.
Others have stated that Disc didn’t really need their damage nerfed in PvE, and I agree. If anything it should have been buffed more in PvP and the atonement transfer should have been nerfed more. If Disc is going to have a niche, lets let them have the niche and amplify it as best as possible. Maybe replace Sins of the Many with something similar to Trinity for PvE? Eh, but what do I know? I just play the game.
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At the moment you can shadow in just about anything and win! hush tho we don’t want the dev’s to get wind of this!
also because they nerfed my disc into the ground I don’t heal any more, maybe next expansion if I’m still around
Disc didn’t get nerfed into the ground, though? It’s been brought more in line with the other healers, and it is still far and away one of the strongest throughput healers in the game at the moment. If a slight tuning change was all it took to stop you healing/playing, then perhaps there are other factors at play here besides disc being hideously strong.
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One thing i do want to throw out there which people forget… Is disc doesn’t do well at the start of a raid tier. To do well you have to know the fights. So of course at the back end of a raid tier we will do well. But reactive healers in a new raid tier will always do better and disc will do well when content is well known. So that nerf may hit harder come next raid. I remind people that on normal Uldir first week, out of 80 possible spots for normal holy priest was like 60 of those spots (i counted back then but i have forgotten now) and on heroic was at least half of the spots along with monks.
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I didn’t say I stop playing it, I said I stopped healing with it! and no disc was not hideously strong by any means!
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Playing the spec*
But it was, though. Do you just ignore statistics, or what?
It really was. Disc had (and still has) the capability to do huge amounts of healing every minute and 15 seconds (now 1.5 minutes) with evangelism. Disc’s burst healing was unmatched, and its sustained healing is not even that lackluster considering that.
People complaining that only the top % of mythic raiders will still be doing well were obviously not playing disc correctly in the first place. I’m largely a heroic raider, and I’m doing just fine.
It seems you’re the one ignoring statistics. Disc is now the lowest average throughput healer in heroic and normal.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#metric=hps&difficulty=4
It still brings DR and DPS that doesn’t show up on that graph, which means it’s still plenty viable and useful. It’s nowhere near “nerfed into the ground”, but also hardly what I’d call “hideously strong.” Why do people always use hyperbole? There is middle ground. Now, if you’re one of those people that thinks lower tiers of difficulty straight up don’t matter, there’s not much to be said.
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Disc is really fun for me, but it doesn’t bring enough to the table in Mythic + for our group. Holy has been performing much better and is more forgiving when people make mistakes.
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I mean Disc got a throughput nerf but it’s not the end of the world, it still brings the exact same things it did in 8.0, that didn’t change… You know: Pain Supp, Barrier, Rapture, decent healing on the move, good DPS while healing, that alongside Priest’s base utility (purge, mass dispel, etc).
Holy on the other hand is imo the one that, no matter how good the healing is, just doesn’t bring enough to the table, which ofc is only necessary for players pushing really high keys, for everything below, player skill and knowledge is the most important utility you can bring.
Do you mean performing “much better” for you maybe??, from what I see the vast majority of Priest healers pushing high keys are still playing Disc.
But yeah I’d say you are correct on that Holy is usually more forgiving for people making mistakes, the Priest himself included in the “making mistakes” part.
I’m not gonna deny that the nerfs were definitely noticeable, and took me some time to adapt but I think Disc is still good for M+, not sure if meta for +20 keys but at least at the range I’m playing it’s still good and totally viable (+14 to +17).
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I was looking at logs prior to making my posts, hence the ‘brought into line’ remark I made. With regards to Disc being ‘hideously OP’… it was. Was. Past tense. Hence the nerfs, and why I feel they were justified. There was no hyperbole involved there. In a raid with as many telegraphed and hard-hitting damage patterns as Uldir, is it any wonder why the versatile, immensely powerful burst healer was doing well?
It’s an interesting argument to be made. I’d say it’s naive to assume that they don’t matter, but I don’t feel they carry as much weight as the static 20 man difficulty, either. So enough said, I suppose.
I’m a week late on a reply to this, but I do have a somewhat satisfactory answer to this question: Talents.
I’m of the opinion that the talent system is a bit under-utilized and could be used to more drastically alter the playstyle than it currently does. I understand that minor changes from talents are easier to balance, but I think there’s still room for talents which offer larger changes to playstyle while not being a heavy balancing issue.
Now, to preface this, I don’t think something like this is hugely necessary for Disc. I usually bring this up in discussions about Shadow, where Voidform is much more polarizing and having a talent option to opt out of it would satisfy both hate/love VF camps to some extent. My stance in this case is that it’s not strictly necessary since Holy is an option - respeccing is nothing compared to rerolling, which if you hate VF is pretty much your only choice. But since this is a Disc thread and the question was raised, I thought I could bounce some ideas around.
In this specific case, I think what we’d want is a talent that lowers the amount of Atonement transfer in exchange for higher up front healing. Probably the easiest way to do that would be a talent to remove the CD from PW:R and probably buffing its healing while removing its ability to apply Atonement. I don’t actually know how much PW:R heals for off-hand, but the idea is to basically turn it into PoH.
No high end Mythic raider would take that, but it serves a purpose in making the spec more forgiving. Giving up such a huge portion of Atonement application would be a huge loss the more difficult the content is, but in easier content just having a spammable AoE heal means a lot in keeping up with other healers.
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I see you all over the Priest forums, and you always seem to make a valid, constructive point.
I agree with your sentiment- The nerf is noticable, but its not the end of the world. People overreact.
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And that includes blizz, perhaps even more so.
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