Doing 14s on my main who is geared around 220, I am getting tons of mana issues. Sometimes it is on bosses and/or prideful. I’m going crazy with this to be honest. I don’t get why you have crazy mana issues with disc priests but zero issues on a holy pally. Like what the heck? You play a disc priest for a couple months and now you have to make a holy paladin?
If you are not pugging and/or in high dps groups, you are probably fine. But a lot of puggers are lacking the dps to nuke bosses fast enough. It’s super annoying spending so much time on keys that are bricked as a result. I am banging my head against the wall with this.
Because thats the way it is. Not every healer is built equal and we all have our pro’s and cons. Pallies have like infinite mana. Is it fair? no, But it has nothing to do with disc. Disc always has had mana issues. Thats part of the skill, dealing with mana, weaving in smends with atonement etc.
Im presuming you are using copious amounts of mana pots, getting ahead of packs ready to drink etc. NE is excellent for dropping combat and getting a drink on non lethal adds
Basically disc has always had mana issues. What is is what is.
Why should you have to run with a druid who has to constantly innervate you? That is what Moadmoad has to do, and he is constantly calling for innervates. It is the same in raids. Such a load of bunk.
Like come on Blizzard, give us a legendary or something to deal with this. It is a really bad game design issue to be honest. And to make matters worse, you are fine untill you start doing higher and higher keys–hence, you don’t realize the problem is there until you have invested your soul in your toon. Again, so annoying.
Oh, you manage your mana, do you? How exactly do you “manage” your mana?
I drink every chance I get. I use mana pots. I heal when I have to. I don’t know what I am doing wrong.
Please explain yourself, bro. “Manage” says nothing helpful at all but suggests you are far superior and like to talk down to us lesser disc priests.
Not to challenge your expertise, but if you’ve ever watched Moadmoad stream, you will see him constantly calling for innervates. Maybe you could teach him something with your obvious wisdom, knowhow and tips regarding how you “manage” mana.
To be honest, thanks to Blizzard’s wisdom here, I have to join epic BGs every time I want to heals keys so that I can get mage cakes to help with this problem. Why should you have to do that? I mean if you dont have the mage cakes, which get you back mana the fastest, the tanks that run off before you go from 5% to 50% are already at the next pack and then when you catch up, you have to blow your cds and spam shadow mends to catch up. It’s just so silly. And then you are back to having mana issues again. Rinse, repeat, and then the key is bricked.
I have seen moad and if you can have a druid and make use of it, why would you not. Im pretty sure if he had no druid he would still function fine
Talk less bro and read more your so busy ranting and because YOU struggle it means disc sucks or it cant be done. Its just a learning curve you have to go through
More empty words. Who would post anything in a forum to get lectured by some “expert” great at “managing” who only has criticisms and doubts about lesser others? If you are so good as to not have mana issues please share your wisdom.
As for Moadmoad, of his most recent 50 keys I have looked at he has run with a druid in the group something like 95% of the time (a fair share of which I have watched at least parts of–coincidentally where he is asking for innervates throughout). And the times when not including one, the keys have been lower ones.
I’d also add that I watched a number of his SL PTR runs where he was constantly complaining about tanks that did not give him time to mana up.
Please share your wonderfully advanced tactics for not having mana issues. You have obviously gained them having healed a ton more keys than the rest of us lesser disc priests, Moadmoad included.
There seems to be a rash of idiots coming to the priest forums lately to rant, who dont listen, want to insult because they dont get it and i would say actually dont play the class cause they post on alts.
I gave you more then empty words but as i was told when i was young, you cant argue with politicians, religious people and idiots.
You have no interest in learning anything, debating anything. You just want to cry. At first i was amused, i have 5 days off, but now im bored so moving along. Pls change class and leave the forums. See a doctor if symptoms persist.
Please do move on. You have said nothing helpful whatsoever. You claim to be so adept at playing disc priests that you are above the rest of us, and care little about sharing a single word of how you are without mana issues. Put a little behind your empty words by telling the rest of us one word about how you play the game without mana issues. That is why I posted. It was not to rant, but simply to ask for help from “experts” like you.
If it is anyone here who is ranting, it is you. Stop ranting about other lesser healers than you and offer up something more than complaints.
The mana issue comes from Shadowmend spam…and Scov talent to some extent. Grevious also intensifies the problem…
Your group has to not take avoidable damage. Disc don’t have many spells that preserve mana.
Don’t be jealous of Holy paladin. Storming and Spiteful weeks are hell for melee healers. Bursting week also sucks for them.
Everything is all balanced around the Pridefuls because it takes about 5-8 minutes to get your first one then you get infinite mana for a while and then you run into a boss or the next Prideful around the same time so it runs in a loop.
you can also type to your party “i need a drink” its not going to kill them and if it dose that sounds like who you’re grouping with as the issue. also this priest your posting on is like 202 ilvl def not 220 doing 14’s so youre not even getting pridefuls to stimulate ur mana
It’s as Daketh exsplained in his first reply, different healers have different designs:
Paladins are not constrained by mana they mostly work around cooldowns, the positive to this is that they don’t care about mana, the negative side is that they can’t choose to burn extra mana for more healing like many other specs can. You either have a CD ready or GG. Innervate is also not really useful for them for that same reason.
I’d say Monk is more or less on the other end of the spectrum, they don’t have that much in terms of CDs but they can easily spend more mana to get extra throughput.
Most healers, Disc included, are somewhere in between.
This differences sometimes play out better for one spec in one type/level of content and sometimes worse. When I was playing Disc a bit more consistently I was very used to Drink every chance I had (don’t really need to drink on the pally), try to get ahead of the group a little bit before stuff dies to get some free seconds to drink. On my Paladin it’s not really an issue.
Honestly think that a lot of the reason for mana issues for all classes, at least for my monk, is that blizzard decided to make eating mana cookies take longer. Before I could sit for like 5 seconds and be good, now you got to sit at least 10-15 seconds to get even half your mana back. If they left it how it was before, might not have these extreme mana issues going on. When I do TW instances I look at my mana going up like gang busters lol. Miss those days.
First of all, why is anybody talking about moadmoad when OP is running 14 keys. Moadmoad is running 20+ keys and if you watch ellesmere or yumi’s streams you will also see them call for innervates. Nothing at that level pertains to you in anyway.
220 gear is overgearing 14s by several levels. Disc does have mana issues, but it actually isn’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. You need to manage your cooldowns properly and not overreact to damage. Dont smend spam people up instantly, you need to heal through damage more probably. Drink while the tank initially pulls, make use of your cov ability, save shadowfiend for last 80% of prideful and use power word solace on cooldown. If you’re doing those things and not spamming smend you really shouldnt be OOM that much. I ran a 17 SD last night and only ran into mana issues on third boss cause we didn’t have prideful. Managing mana is part of the difficulty/ a lot of the difficulty of disc in m+ and thats how it should be. Position properly, be near the tank or run ahead and start drinking so you’re in range already when the pull starts. Always drink imbetween pulls - if you’re at 30k mana, then position quickly ahead and start drinking during the start of the next pull and heal when he needs it.
Also look at the stats on your gear. If you have low crit and a ton of haste you will OOM quick without doing much more healing. Crit is going to help you top people up quickly and save mana. If someone is low and you shadowmend crit it saves you a ton of mana. You have to be one step ahead of the fights in m+.
Yup, I used to stock up on the Dark Moon Fish Feasts. They were so great. Now they are gone, sigh. And to get your mana back fastest you need mana cakes. Such rot when you have to join a bg simply to get mage cakes before running m+. I mean you don’t have to, but it makes sense to because a lot of tanks barely pause for you to drink, and then when you rejoin the group you have to spam shadowmend to catch up, which can be very mana costly–perpetuating the problem.
I find a lot of pug groups have that one warrior or whatever that constantly gets hit by things, requiring you to spam shadowmend on them a lot. You can even get two in the group like that. You can also have very squishy tanks who for lack of skill and/or proper gear make your mana costs go through the roof.
I don’t think I mismanage my cds at all, but I am trying to use radiance only when I really need to. Seriously though a lot of people do not use defensives–ever, and a lot stand in fire. A lot do not know basic dodging and think they can avoid doing a lot of things they could to reduce their damage taken. They think the healer is there to allow them to not do mechanics well, or even at all.
the only thing i cna personally think of is …
the group you are running with
if you got an idiot standing in bad
does self heal when they can
then your going to oom faster.
I hate when on grievious Mythics i have a monk or a ret pally go.
UM HEAL PLEASEEEEEE - like IM SORRY THE TANK FIRST.
then i ran another group where the demon hunter dived out of combat and bandaged himself.
One, Moad plays in organized groups when he’s doing his 20+ keys.
Two, in the highest keys you’re looking to beat the timer. To do that, the more aggressive your pulls can be, the better. As such, it’s generally better to frequently call innervates. WHENEVER you’re about to make a large spend (even if it’s not necessarily NEEDED) so that your mana can be dragged out as long as possible without needing to drink.
This isn’t just particular to Disc priest. Watch people pushing those same keys on Shaman and you’ll also see them calling for innervates. Even Paladins will do this.
I know that as a healer that is learning, it feels right to look at a top level healer and watch what they’re doing and try to emulate it. But a +26 pushing team is a completely different beast than a +15 pug. In a +15 you’re going to need far less perfect play, you’re going to have moments of downtime, the timer is far less strict as everything dies faster, etc. They’re going to push every advantage they possibly can.
As far as general tips for managing mana:
Use Power Word: Solace every chance you can get. You want to try and keep this on CD. That’s not always possible, sometimes you’ll have to be casting other things but you should be AIMING for it.
Start to recognize when you don’t need to burst heal your teammates. Yes, your warrior might get hit, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you need to shadowmend spam. You can probably get away with 1, and let your following atonement get him back up. Unless they pull aggro, most packs only have one or two mechanics that burst, and they’re on a CD. When a burst happens, it’s not super likely another is about to follow immediately.
Shadowfiend with your PI. You will get a lot of mana back from Sfiend casts this way, and it’s just one part of why Twins is such a good legendary for us. Sfiend is basically a healing CD tied to PI and you’ll need to do much less healing while it’s out, so you can focus more on atonement.
Start using Rapture more if you’re ever in a situation where you really need to spam. Spamming PW:S while in rapture is far more effective healing than Smend spam, and is less mana used. Ideally, you should learn what packs do damage and rapture before the damage goes out, but you can ALSO use rapture reactively a lot of the time.
Interesting. I’ve always found rapture to be a big mana drain, but have never compared it to shadowmend in terms of mana. Also, rapture does nothing to heal anyone–that said, it is great for preventing more damage.
I dunno. I mean i know what you are saying, and of course, I hold off at times. But I reason that the guy who stands in fire obviously does not have GTFO and/or any awareness of the unnecessary damage he is taking. Hence, I like to keep these guys topped up to prevent them from dying a lot. Alternately, I have on occasion just let these guys die a few times so they get the message they need to move and/or up their game. Some of these guys are taking as much as half the damage the tank is taking while others in melee range are taking very low damage. At any rate, these guys also mess up your use of radiance hence I like to keep the group at approximately equal health levels to get the most out of radiance. I mean it is not only a healing issue. Remember that using radiance means your damage is reduced and if you are not using it well because people are at uneven health levels then you are doing it wrong.
Oh, yeah. Frequently. I think you should be getting it pretty much off CD unless your mana is full. It seems that waiting on it seems silly, assuming you are not going to mistime it such that you cannot realize the full mana gain.
your so busy ranting and because YOU struggle it means disc sucks or it cant be done. Its just a learning curve you have to go through