You must be reading something else mate, you’re the only one with mana issues in mythic+ here.
Even OP says he hasn’t tested it out in m+, he was struggling in raids with mana.
Which is a completely different story
This season takes out all mana issues in m+, I don’t even have mana food anymore, there’s many keys where things go wrong or not enough dps or bad tanking, you really really won’t ever need to drink even then.
And if a boss does take 7 minutes+, you got more issues than mana my friend
You really are too inexperienced this season IMHO.
All those previous season data means absolutely nothing about you complaining about mana being an issue when it’s just not an issue at all in dungeons this seasons, if you haven’t experienced it this season, don’t say it like it’s reality.
I don’t know why you have trouble taking that in.
If you’re remotely skilled doing 15s won’t be an issue AT ALL.
At bigger keys you focus dps, and STOP keeping up atonement unless unavoidable/upcoming damage is about to come in.
I’ve been pugging this entire season, with good and bad keys, and im saying it out of experience
With current disc priests, 0 mana issues.
I quit disc healing temporarily. I dont mind holy, and the invites I am getting as holy come super fast. Two of my priests have healed 16s in pugs where I got invites at low ilevels and low raider io scores–something you NEVER see on a disc priest. That is because holy is meta. I like that–and my own thinking of disc as having mana issues in past patches aside. Quick invites to me are where it’s at.
As for mana in this patch, I have zero experience with it as disc. Holy is plenty fun for me, and if you look at raider io, very few are healing disc currently. It is also ranked down at the bottom tier with Monk in guide videos–which is a red flag if you want fast invites.
If you dont pug or you are not having issues, then heal disc and enjoy. All the more power to you. And if I am wrong about mana, so be it, and thank you for correcting me.
Not in my runs. I see a lot of Wo for skips to be honest. Loads actually. And a very sizable portion of my runs are two chested–owing in part to that relic choice alone and how it lends you the ability to stealth and move super fast, skipping over the hardest pulls a lot and saving tons of time–also allowing for doing some mechanics more easily because you can move so much faster. And also allowing me to do less healing and more damage because of the damage reduction.
I would add that just four days ago Madskillzz came out with this video where he ranked Disc as D tier (the lowest) and Holy as S tier (the top). Maybe you dont agree, and you are entitled to your opinon.
He bases his tier list on key completion mostly. He’s usually well versed in healers but never mained disc as far as I know?
The fact that the specs are ranked by key completion is ok in itself, but a lot of people in wow play the meta only, and it gets worst as you get higher in the endgame. This means that his tier list is skewed because of spec popularity (which is impacted, a lot, by the meta)
Disc would still be at the bottom with monk I guess, but D? Neither specs are that bad.
Edit: if you actually listen to the video he says those things himself… he doesnt even rank disc in the video, the ranking on the right is from raider io based on key completion as a metric.
Yeah, that’s pretty accurate. He seems to veer away from disc as much as possible.
Absolutely true. And hence why in the last patch, I saw “No priest healers” in the group finder when I was trying to heal 20s and could not get invites except to very low skilled groups.
I agree. But I have tried championing the concept of healer and class balance to get the attention of the game developers with posts in the General Discussion forum only to get attacks against me implying I was a poor player. The rationale I gathered from the most vocal posters was that all healers can do the highest or near highest keys and that is why on any healer there is on need to worry about “class balance.” And this came largely from a guy who mained “Holy Paladin” and was Venthyr when Ashen Hollow did insane damage, and a lot chimed in to support his view, and I was demonized. I now put most of my faith in agreement with Yumy who has recommended anyone who likes healing ought to simply heal on the healers that are “good” vs swimming against the current. That does not imply I personally categorize disc as “not good” but that seems to be how the community ranks disc based on key completion.
It’s kinda true though… All healers can do the highest content… is it balanced? No… and blizz sure seem to care very little for healer balance… it took a loooong time to fix the mess that was ashen hollow…
Well, it’s kinda what the dps have been through since forever? But that’s the kind of comment that makes everyone just go meta-meta-meta and do nothing else.
You seem to give way to much credits to youtubers/streamers imho. They are just players with their own opinion, often doing high end content, and making money out of it (hopelly for them). If I was making money out of playing the game, of course I would play the meta or recommend playing the meta, that’s the easiest way to climb up… people want to see high level content on a stream, not some m+2 or 1k rating 3s…
I dunno. Kind of true is basically half true. If I am going to be frank about it, something able to do something does not mean it is optimal for it. Think about it. It implies that people are wrong about selecting the “best” of something to get the job done.
Exactly. And hence, as Yumy puts it: Play what’s good.
Oh, it totally is. But it’s swimming against the current if you don’t and you want to push high-end content. If high end content is not your thing then don’t worry about it.
I would qualify that by saying that in my opinion you get people starting to be selective about classes they bring as early as in 12 keys. Of course it is a lot less of a thing at the 12 key level, but by the time you get to the upper teens, it starts to really be noticeable.
Well, it’s like this: Some of the videos that healer streamers post have gotten in the tens of thousands of views. And I personally think for myself as much as I can, but with that many views, the things these guys say, which are taken as gospel by some–are not words to ignore if you are wise. What I mean is, do you want to be right or do you want to play the game? Loads of people let these guys do their thinking for them–and that the case, if you dont play meta, it can have bearing on what the guy with the key thinks.
Do I myself think there is anything to that kind of thinking? Sure. I think the group comp is critical to the success of the key. And if you have someone playing meta vs someone else not and their score, ilevel and experience look about the same, then you are probably right in choosing the class you believe is meta and pumps the most damage (for example).
Well, you would be silly to do otherwise. You would discredit yourself in the eyes of people who want to know the facts so they dont have to play all of the classes themselves to decide on which is best.
I’m gonna level with you. In infinitely scaling content, it is an inevitability that something will be optimal.
There isn’t a single game that has ever existed where the PvE portion didn’t get solved to hyper optimization. Hell, Speedrunning as a community is all about exactly that in every RPG that has ever been run. There is literally no balance state Blizzard can ever get to where that won’t be the case. It simply doesn’t exist.
Literally, Mythic Raiding and the race to world first is a perfect example. Every raider will tell you that you can run almost everything in the game and complete mythic raids. They hyper-optimize simply because they’re trying to win a race and they’re trying to win it with significantly worse gear than guilds that finish the raid a few months in will finish with. And the ENTIRE RAID META revolves around what world first guilds are running.
Mythic plus takes that problem and exacerbates it because there isn’t a singular difficulty that you’re completing. Mythic plus scales infinitely. There is no endgame. At the top tier, all the M+ groups that are trying to push the highest keys are literally in the same position raiders are in all the time, because once they do manage a difficulty, they will move onto the next.
You play what’s good when you’re looking to play high keys because, well, you have to. You don’t have the advantage of doing it months out with better gear. You have to always be hyper-optimizing to try and eek out even the most fractional of power gains to your comp in order to get that next key done.
But that doesn’t apply to the vast majority of the playerbase, If all you wanna do is some +20s, maybe up to +23 or something, you can do it on every class. And realistically, there’s no reason for most people to push beyond that since rewards stop at +20.
Pretending like playing a Monk is absolutely terrible and irredeemable, and you’ll never get done what you want ever and you should just swap now to a holy priest…
Well, it’s useless advice for most people. The vast majority of the playerbase never even hits +15s. They don’t need advice like that.
People seems to care about the meta a lot more than they should though. Probably because they’re being told over and over and over that they should. I feel the community is a bit too elitist for its own good
Yeah, I agree. But the reality is, people do select meta if it is available over other classes. And you will see this as low as for 12s if you are paying attention. If you think I think that is great, you would be wrong. I have made threads about class and healer balance in the General Forum arguing that class balance ought to be a goal of the game developers. And the threads went on and on and on with all kinds of points and one of the main ones–argued by someone who mained meta (ironically or not) and refused to play other classes was that all classes “can” do the highest keys, so the idea that Blizzard ought to make balance better was silly.
Yeah, I also agree. But there are degrees of everything. When one class towers above the rest, like Holy Paladins with Ashen Hollow in the last patch–which made their damage comparable to a pure DPS class… When one class towers above the rest, it signifies to me that there is a problem with class balance.
What is my point? My point is that you can talk until you are blue in the face saying stuff like:
But nobody cares. People are going to select the class they perceive as better because they can. And they do just that. And you can fight it and rail against it, but that is not going to stop it. The point you have to ask yourself is: If you get up much above the 12 key level (or whatever you yourself deem as where it starts to matter) do you accept that people are going to invite you based on the class you chose or not? In markets, there is an old saying: Do you want to be right, or do you want to make money?!! The idea is the same: That is, you are never going to change perception, so either accept it or deal with the consequences of your choices.
In the end, and in relation to this game, it is a good idea to be aware of how misguided keyholders can be about their decisions about what classes to invite to their keys.
Totally true. Although it’s not as bad as you make it sound imo… I mean, we have it way better than the worst dps specs out there, and I know a ret pally who pugged his ksm and who’s pushing toward 20s and he doesn’t seem to struggle too much finding groups.
Have you been playing alliance this whole time? If so, maybe 9.2.5 will make things better on that front with the cross faction queues (I know it’s not a pb right now since you get instant invites as holy, I’m just wondering). I guess the problem might be worst alliance side
We’re not in that state right now, though. Every healer has a chance to grab resonant reservoir and do massive damage. Healer damage is all close enough that it really doesn’t matter till you’re doing like 25+. Monk is pretty much the objectively worst healing class right now and they’re clearing 27s.
I’m saying there’s literally no need to encourage it.
This is only a problem for DPS, really. Because healers and tanks can just run their own keys. In 9.1 I played Holy - the same spec you say you’d get asked about and rejected all the time.
I got KSM in the first 2 weeks, and I was pugging.
You are not out of options for picking a healing spec the community deems sub-par. Flat out.
Alliance is worse in just about every way. My main is Horde, but I like the idea of being on the side of the underdog, so have not played her much this patch. In fact, I had unsubbed and not healed any keys for about four months until a few weeks ago. When I had gotten into the 20 range or so (as disc) in the last patch on both Horde and Alliance the invites that came were super slow, and not only that but they were always with either low skilled or the dps too low so I just pretty much stopped doing keys. And seeing that most of the keys went to holy paladins and shamans, I started looking at this whole class balance thing a lot more closely. Hence, my current view about not playing disc. But keep in mind one of the main reasons I main priest is because it has two healer specs. If another class had two or even three healer specs that would be a top contender for me for any expansion.
Oh, god, yeah. The bottom of the barrel dps are SOL unless they swap out, big time. And the thing is, anyone playing those classes kind of gets shafted in hidden ways. I see it all the time when healing. You get someone who mains low tier and they get into a group, and have had so little experience in good groups (cuz they just dont get the invites to good ones) that they mess up on little things like standing in fire, easy skips, rezzing and running back when they shouldnt and you name it, they do it. That is what I see anyhow. It’s like when you play disc a lot in poor groups–you develop all kinds of bad habits (like overhealing via shadowmend) that you have to fight against in good groups–and then when you are in a good group you are “learning” vs “performing.”
That is true: The differences across healers are not as pronounced. That said, people like us know that, but does “the community?” What I mean is, you get a lot of people (or at least some) who think the differences can be huge when they are not, and the proof in their minds is what has been the case in previous patches/expansions.
Take my beliefs with a grain of salt if you want. My views are not any more valid than yours, and I respect yours. All I am spelling out are the conclusions I have come to in my own mind. And I do know that the invites on holy come super fast now–and nothing I have ever seen before. In fact, I was shocked the other day because I must have accidentally queued for a 16 on one of my alts, a 250 or so priest. But I was accepted and thought it was for a 12 or something like that. And my score was low as well, and three quarters the way through the run I noticed it was a 16 and was like, wtf, how did I get into this group in the first place? Early on in patch sure, you can get invited to fairly high keys with a low score. But this late it is nuts accepting anyone with a low score–but that is people for you when you are meta. We did time it though–a 16 PF–and to my pleasant surprise.
