Nothing you wrote was honest.
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Nothing YOU have wrote is honest, lol.
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15s are a meme. You don’t need a healer at all and tbh if I healed it I’m certain we wouldn’t need a tank.
I’m not saying the first 3 are hard because they aren’t but you atleast need to do most mechanics properly.
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Utter disingenuous argument.
Raids aren’t timed, the raid boss isn’t “failed” when you took 2 hours to kill normal Tarrague. You still get your loot regardless of whether you took 2hrs or 40 hrs to kill a boss. You can take a break mid raid just to have people learn mechanics from a video or guide, you cannot do that in M+.
The content isn’t remotely the same, the reward structure reflects that. There are issues with the reward system in M+, but that is almost entirely player driven. The problems of loot systems can be discussed without being disingenuous and misleading.
The first 3 bosses in Mythic are also a meme.
If Blizzard didn’t have their artificial gating mechanism (Mythic lock-out), I’d say the vast, vast, vast majority of my gear would probably come from those three bosses, because it is so friggin powerful compared to how easy those bosses are.
If Blizzard ever does change the way Mythic lock-outs work, M+ gearing will be on life-support. Not that I think Blizzard shouldn’t change the way Mythic lock-outs work, because they overly restrict people who might play the content from experiencing it, I’m just saying if you made that change, you would actually severely hurt M+ gearing.
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Remember when new dungeons were made and invalidated immediately either because the gear was subpar or just farmed for badges?
Me too. That was fun.
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m+ existed in cata? and mop?
wow, i really missed out
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It’s psychological. Even the start countdown it pumps you up like it’s a race. The progress bar keeps you on your toes to try and not miss a critical pack. I mean it’s probably a learning curve problem, but it’s a source of anxiety in pugs. Good thing they got rid of Prideful at least, that was ugh.
I understand that people always optimized routes since vanilla, but the dungeon performance wasn’t so formalized and on the surface. It’s like driving for the test versus just driving.
You act as if the loading bar into a TBC Heroic wasn’t exactly the same thing.
Zoning into Heroic Shattered Halls, the loading bar was basically those red-yellow-green lights at the start of a 1/4 mile.
Pull fast, pull big, or go home.
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No they aren’t. M+ is though, the whole point is to beat the timer.
You take 5 hours to clear a few raid bosses - you get awarded a same ilvl piece in the vault.
You take 5 hours to clear a 15 - you get awarded with inflated ilvl loot from the vault.
Yes, and M+ is too generous and invalidates anything below mythic raiding by throwing loot at people with it’s 24x7 spammability, and then also guarantees you an inflated ilvl piece of loot from the vault from failing to time a single 15.
Failing the timer should make the run not count for GV credit, and the ilvl of the GV item should match the ilvl of the run you completed. Otherwise, the raid items from the GV should also be inflated ilvl.
Every time this topic comes up M+ players aggressively defend the M+ loot gravy train, because they know one of the primary reasons people run it is for the inflated gear.
I mean, there is probably always people like that, but I personally try to avoid them.
that’s actually a really good analogy in that most people are also terrible at driving 
Wow subscriber numbers peaked when there were no transmogs.
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Mythic Plus attracted the people who are wrong for the game.
Mythic Plus ran off the people who are good for the game.
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I stopped raiding during Cataclysm and I haven’t missed it. Since Legion, M+ has been my primary source of entertainment in WoW. If not for M+, I likely would have drifted away several years ago.
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Are you sure about that?
I have no doubt that a number of people have quit for being vote kicked for not knowing optimal routes, being verbally harassed for failing a mechanic, constantly being denied upgrades due to no drops or GV rng, or just out of frustration from sitting in a queue for long periods of time due to a low IO score.
That’s just a couple of reasons off the top of my head.
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you are right alot off ppl are soft and might see being kicked as a direct assualt on them and need to escpae that inviroment.
also it helps your IO to start your own keys. and make sure if you dont know routes to make sure your memebers are aware.
Ppl shouldnt give up becasue someone hurts their feelings.
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I don’t think m+ attracted players I mean look at the esports of it. No one cares about it. And most of wow players are not new players it’s returning people (could be wrong but what think to be true)
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My issues with M+ is that it has become a gearing strategy for some to get the gear in M+ before you raid…seems asinine.