LFD, LFR and CRBG all do the same thing, which is destroy the social aspect of the game.
The number one complaint I hear from people who can’t stand modern WoW is that their friends list is empty and their guild is dead, dying or disbanded.
There is very little reason to have social friends and family type raiding guilds. The high cost of the convenience for push button content is that a lot of people end up in guilds that are just a chat channel with very little guild activities.
Compare and contrast with BC where for the life of the expansion your guild had the entire end game to do together. I did a Karazhan and Zul’Aman run the day before WotLK launched with guildes just for something to do.
LFD, LFR and CRBG hurt the casual communities that it was designed to benefit the most. The more hardcore “elitist” types still play mostly with their guild and friends, so for them the game is still pretty social. Ironic doesn’t even begin to cover it.
LFD is one of the worst things that they have ever put in the game. 5 Mans became an instant no fun when i could just aoe the entire dungeon down and not have to worry about CC anymore.
Thing is, even if you remove titan/warforging, the problem I described remains. So, again, how many times did you run old content once the new LFR was out?
Catch up gear is a horrifyingly bad idea. Not only does it gut content and make the game smaller, but it simply creates a gear minimum wage. Which, as I mentioned, actually hurts most people.
So heroic is supposed to be the new normal…? And that changes what I said how? LFR in WOW HAS to be catered to the worst player in the game. Which further drags down all the rest of the content.
It’s also rather sad that you would defend that massive gutting of WoW to appease people that, by your own definition, do not actually want to play.
I’m not going to bother looking back up to see what it is you’re talking about, but LFD/LFR did not cause any significant damage to this game or to any guilds or to any sense of community in this game.
It’s just a lame boring go-to many people bring up any time they want to harp on about what “destroyed” the game.
That’s a fascinating belief, but my hundreds of days of played experience tells me you’re completely and totally wrong.
You fail to understand that people leave and re-join the game at different times. If you did not have catch up gear, you would have far fewer people willing to return mid expansion.
There wouldn’t be enough other people interested in running the older content. They’d have an awful time catching up if they could at all. It would take them weeks or months depending on when they came back just to get the gear needed to raid the current content assuming they could even get into the old content they needed to grind to catch up in the first place.
Complete nonsense.
The lowest raid difficulty in the game is supposed to be really easy. It does not bring anything else down. LFR being easy doesn’t make any difficulty above it easier.
Mythic raiding is still hard. The reason fewer people may be doing it now compared to old hard modes and heroics has absolutely nothing at all to do with LFR despite the random group think on the interest resulting in many believing that it clearly destroyed the game.
Modern convenience features like LFD/LFR did not gut WoW.
LFD is fine although the instant teleport into an instance did ruin traveling through the world. At least with the summoning stones requires a few people to go to the instance and everyone gets to see the outside for a bit.
Of course, none of this matters in Classic since there is no LFD or summoning stones. Have fun spamming chat for hours looking for a group!
Killing off most of the popular characters like Arthas, Illidan, Kel’thuzad, Kael’thas and Anub arak within the first two expansions was really dumb. Then again, considering how a lot of characters are treated in modern WoW it was probably for the best.
LFR/LFD didn’t cause damage to the community?!?!? Even if you want to take the position that it didn’t affect progression, while still wrong, you would have something to say, but to say that implementing a means of completing the game that required little effort, that could be done essentially anonymously and that made it so that effort and skill were optional while still providing the same rewards didn’t hurt the community is so inasanely stupid that I have to ask if you are a troll or 7.
And again, I don’t care if you need a handholding version so that you can pretend that you did something, the problem arises when it hands you gear that you didn’t earn and that renders all previous content irrelevant just because you are just barely smart enough to click the proper queue button.
And yes, LFR, LFD, along with welfare gear and some other things like CRZ did in fact ruin this once great game. More specifically, mewling losers who refused to actually play and demanded and EZ mode because of their feelings destroyed the game. Why do you think so many people demanded a version of the game that got rid of all that?
And for the 2910387120983721-09837612980379812379th time, I’m not talking about, nor do I care about mythic, heroic or even normal raiding. I’m talking about how, to appease the mindless,entitled AoE derpers, all 5 man content was neutered and all “not the current raid” content was rendered useless.
Vanilla isn’t everyone’s favorite version of the game + some people liked things from multiple versions and just want to be able to play them again.
You’re still totally and completely wrong in everything you think believe and perceive about this game.
You should care about the fact that there is more challenging content. If you want to be challenged the challenging content is there. Go be challenged and stop whining about what other people are doing with their time. Imagine caring that other people are playing the game for different reasons on different difficulties… People you don’t even have to encounter or play with. The fact that you’re mad that easy content exists at all is just laughable. Getting mad because the game has multiple difficulties and people can choose to not face more challenging ones is elitist garbage. Are you mad when people play through a single player RPG on easy mode and faceroll it? Those games intentionally have a story mode difficulty for people to faceroll though. Why do you care what they’re doing? Even in an MMO, the people on the easiest difficulty never get comparable gear, so maybe sit back and re-evaluate why it makes you so mad that easy content exists alongside challenging content.
WoW has plenty of problems that I’ve always criticized for years, but the boring lame group think nonsense about LFR/LFD is complete garbage and always has been. People pick a scapegoat to unleash all their issues with the game on. “THAT’S IT!!! THAT’S WHAT RUINED IT!!!” Just like how people used the D3 AH as a scapegoat when there were far worse issues with D3 vanilla (and still with RoS).
Five man content was made more important than it has ever been in the entire history of the game in Legion. Mythic+ offers more end-game 5 man content and challenges than we’ve ever had. If you really think marking things to sap/polly/trap was super skillful and challenging compared to things like dealing with M+ affixes in dungeons that can scale up, well, I’m not sure you really understand the difficulty of content in the past compared to the present.
I’ve done everything from all the vanilla 5 man (and 10 man) content to TBC heroics, cata heroics etc. I’ve been in TBC heroics when we didn’t out gear them and there were pulls even in some cases the first pull of the heroic that almost wasted tanks and you had to blow cooldowns and spam. It wasn’t that complicated and M+ affixes often are more complicated in terms of how you have to deal with them compared to old content. Maybe not if you only do M+ content you out gear, which many people do. The reason people don’t challenge themselves again comes back to titanforging though, not the lack of challenging content in the game.
As much as I hate titanforging, it made “not the current raid” content more potentially relevant and useful than it’s ever been. Even though you could potentially get past set pieces/trinkets with current item levels, still people usually were burnt out on it and didn’t bother. Legendaries or maybe a very limited number of specific items were usually the only significant reason to keep doing old content once the next raid came out in past expansions and many guilds still took a pass. In WotLK we went into ICC hard modes with only 2 healers with Ulduar maces because nobody wanted to go back to Ulduar to farm them. Not everyone has the time to run current and past raids. Facerolling MC because people want shiny legendaries wasn’t exactly compelling relevant content anymore than past content has ever been.
So yea, you’re not even right about any of that at all.
TLDR: Challenging content exists at both the 5 man and raid difficulty level. We have more challenging 5 man content than we’ve ever had, by far.
See last large paragraph for a response to the “not the current raid” comment.
If you’re really just upset that easy content exists at all, re-evaluate and stop worrying about what other people are doing. You want challenging content? It’s there and always has been if you really want it.
WoW has far bigger issues than having multiple difficulties and letting “casuals” experience an easier version of the content. In fact, that’s not an issue at all, it’s a strength of the game.
edit:
They actually probably did, but most would have given up before that and simply never gone.
Even with the dungeon finder, I once was looking for a tank for a M+ for over half an hour in Legion. It was for one of the unpopular ones and it didn’t have much to interest a tank. I usually formed groups with a tank friend so I didn’t have to deal with finding one (and I was always the healer) but if you need a tank, even in modern WoW with a dramatically larger pool of players to draw from when making groups, it can take awhile to form groups for some content.
did x doom wow
it was 1000s of cuts, some of them deeper than others. The game is a sad reflection of what it was.
After 10 minutes of spamming i started whispering people by class and level. If there was no one online, which was the case sometimes, i would tell the group it isn’t happening cause of the lack of tank or healer.
I would find myself whispering people i had seen and grouped with before. It was a good part of the game. Your automation garbage ruined wow.
So, the group finder system I’m talking about isn’t automated first of all. The dungeon finder, which you queue for, solo or as a group automatically ports you into a group and dungeon (but only up to heroic difficulty, which is irrelevant within days of hitting max level) and the group finder (or I guess it’s called the “premade group finder”), is essentially just a modern UI to replace advertising for groups in chat.
Also, people still invite people to their friends list even in modern WoW and ask them before inviting pugs. I don’t get why so many people in the Classic forum seem to think that stopped happening. If anything, xserver tech + the battletag system made that more common and a lot easier.
Sorry, but if you think the game was better because you could more easily fail to find people and not get to play when you wanted to, you’re simply wrong. In fact, if you think people are going to be doing that in Classic, you’re wrong about that too. They will use discord with a larger pool of players to ask than trade chat, or some third party group finder site if the addon API doesn’t allow for oQueue style addons. It will still be a smaller community because it’s per-server only, but we won’t be playing exactly as we did in Vanilla. We have better tools now and we’ll use them, even in Classic.
edit: and just to add more to my long posts nobody will read anyway, many of you seem to not get that the actual automated queues like LFR/DF have no meaningful relevance to any player going into higher difficulties outside of some catch up gear the first days/weeks of a new patch or an alt or something. Most of the players doing that dungeon content are using the pre-made group finder and forming groups for M+ or harder content more than they’re spending their time in automated queues.
LfD,LfR,CRZ, along with removing some rpg elements from the game ruined wow. Bringing in more accessibility than needed ruined wow. Disagreeing with those shows that you and others like you are actually the problem in wow.
But anyway, I’m going to mute this topic now so I can stop getting notifications about it. None of you are going to convince me you’re right (not that many of you are even providing any meaningful argument to support your belief anyway) and I’m obviously not capable of penetrating the anti-LFR/DF group consciousness. It is beyond my power.
You do realize where you are, right? It’s not our job to convince you when you don’t want to be convinced. Players may want Classic for a variety of reasons, but no LFD/LFR/CRZ and more RPG elements are absolutely valid and popular reasons. If you enjoy those systems - great, stick with retail. But those are absolutely major contributing factors as to why retail WoW is not for us.
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