glad we agree that Liquid could of woke up early instead of sleeping in, when they where also told a hotfix was coming and when it was coming but still decided to sleep.
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The 100m dash in the Olympics also doesn’t change the track surface from concrete to tartan after half the races of the semifinals have concluded.
I agree to a point. Few guilds (if any) that aren’t part of RWF will even reach Razageth in the next few weeks. Nerfing the boss probably needed to happen in short order, but nerfing it during RWF uniquely affects only those team competing in the race.
Echo had been raiding for 6 hours before the nerf came in. Liquid also had already been punched in the gut by having already lost the chance to take first under the circumstances of a Echo killing it immediately post-nerf.
I get it, if people aren’t perfect it means they don’t deserve good things. But it’s just disingenuous to pretend like they aren’t humans with very real human emotions.
They didn’t know the fight was going to be nerfed at the time they chose to stay up the night before. They were also going onto day 11 of consecutive 12-14 hour days for the race. Consistency is important for peak performance, especially when having so many days of intense focus in a row.
Liquid raids when they do because NA maintenance is usually scheduled to finish at 10AM PST. If they raided earlier, they would wind up losing time on either the front or back end during the RWF events due to that maintenance. If anything, the Liquid raiding schedule during RWF is the biggest factor that can rightly be attributed to Blizzard.
But even if this wasn’t a factor, there’s no way Liquid could have known nearly 2 weeks ago there would be a major race impacting nerf going in during the morning for NA.
I guess they shouldn’t RAID when the raid opens for NA then and not EU and wait for it to open world wide for everyone with that logic
Everyone is missing the biggest point:
They released a new raid season in between the two biggest holidays of the year. Not only was the dragonflight release poorly timed, they could not have dropped the season at any worse of a time other than the actual week of christmas.
Someone sat down and looked at a calendar and said “yes, just two weeks before CHRISTMAS would be a great time to release the first season of a long awaited expansion.”
They ruined the world first race to pad the numbers for this quarterly performance.
I mean the guilds could of just NOT did it…they did have that option
It is very hard for management to organise manpower and resources while out at sea on their 200 yard yachts. Plus, you can only post so many adds on fiverr without making a premium account, which obviously wont happen because that costs money.
so they wait for one team to sleep and nerf the hell out of it for the awake team?
thats hilarious 
blizz tier S troll
They promote it way too much, and make nerfs, etc, always announcing ‘grats’ to those who when then they don’t for other ‘player events’ so I don’t really believe you here.
That’s like saying Wowhead isn’t Blizzard sponsored even though GMs will send you links to wowhead because they refuse to help.
There was no maintenance that day… JFC
No but routine is important for peak performance, especially when attempting to perform for several weeks of 12-14 hour days. Expecting a team should be able to perform at a world class level while not maintaining a consistent schedule is ludicrous.
Then even let’s say Liquid decided to change their schedule in response to the anticipated nerf, what would have happened if there was a hidden mythic phase that needed to be progressed? That decision would then throw their rhythm off in those additional hours or days required to figure out that new phase. They could’ve hurt their chances more than helped with such a decision.
The nerf timing gave Echo a massive advantage in that final push. Liquid making a last second decision to change their schedule to try to have a shot at post-nerf Razageth is not easy given the amount of long days these teams already have to commit to try to be world first and anyone claiming it is easy is delusional.
I’m not saying Echo didn’t deserve the win. I’m not saying Liquid would’ve come out on top had no nerf been applied. But there’s a high likelihood that Liquid would have won the race had this nerf been applied at 6PM PST instead of 9AM. And as a fan of RWF, it’s disappointing to know that lingering question will always hang over the event.
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Isn’t it like this every RWF? At least since CN?
They should huh, but they don’t which is why RWF is stupid. That this many people follow it so much so that they can form a legitimate business out of it is just pathetic.
Oh just shut the hell up
even with the Nerf it still took them 3 to 4 hours to kill the boss, Liquid also had the raid opens before EU, and Liquid had lots of hotfixes happen while echo was asleep as well…If liquid didnt over sleep and got up early knowing the hot fix/Nerf was coming and what time it was coming maybe id feel bad, But sense they decided to sleep longer KNOWING the nerf was coming I dont feel bad.
I’m not asking you to feel bad. I’m saying that it’s a shame for this to be how the race ended. It’s easy to commit people already pulling consecutive 12+ hour days for a week and a half to just wake up early because a nerf is on the way. It’s easy to not consider what would have happened if that nerf wasn’t enough to kill it and thus both guilds would have hours more of progression before killing the boss.
After knowing they couldn’t come in first and their closest competitors currently competing for third were more than a day away from catching them, I would imagine morale and the drive wasn’t nearly as high as when first was still possible. We have no idea how they would’ve performed if first place was still within reach.
And more than double the maintenance time of EU. They had a bug that prevented the door to the next part of the raid from opening for more than an hour.
Going first also gives the other teams the opportunity to watch fights and your strategies that you may have spent wipes to learn.
Liquid also had more wipes on Razageth when the phase 1 adds were unkillable and when the phase 2 shield was unkillable. Both mechanics took a 50% nerf. Those extra wipes guaranteed any time Liquid may have gained by going first was squandered with absolutely no way for them to have played better to maintain it.
Yes, but with the final boss being 100% unkillable even in perfect gear with perfect play when they got there, other teams could make up whatever ground Liquid gained from hotfixes occurring at times which benefited them.
To make sure my position is clear, the nature of a guild-organized race involves inherent unfairness. This is what the teams sign up for until Blizzard makes it an official event with a level playing field (which likely will never happen). The players know this and the viewers should be made aware of this. I am not indicting Blizzard for anything they did; they are well within their rights to patch the game on their own schedule and it’s not a great tragedy when they do so.
The logistics around NA vs EU vs Asia guarantee that one team will have an advantage. While there are some advantages to going first there are also some detriments. How much of an advantage or disadvantage each difference is can’t be quantified over the course of a race. For every thing someone could point to how one team had an advantage someone else can highlight how it was also a disadvantage in different ways.
My main point is that despite all the imbalance, we had two great teams trading blows on the last boss once it was finally potentially killable after two massive nerfs. That Razageth progression after the second nerf was some of the best RWF action we’ve seen in a while. To have the deciding factor be a hotfix that came several hours after one team was already warmed up with several pulls and before the other was scheduled to start is just a shame.
I genuinely believe if Razageth wasn’t nerfed, and it was killable with tighter execution, that Echo would have taken world first. I am not trying to claim that Liquid had it in the bag if that third nerf not come. I just also believe that if the roles were reversed and the hotfix came after Liquid was warmed up and Echo was asleep, Liquid would have made quick work of the boss and we would be talking about Liquid regaining the world first crown. The fact that we can only speculate on how it would have turned out is most disappointing to me.
world first means nothing anymore so don’t worry about it. World first only proves why wrestling is faked in terms of wrestlers throwing fights so a new champion can come in and light things up again. The same 2 or 3 guilds keep winning WF and it sucks. They also use combat addons to cheapen the fight, and get LITERAL live-nerfs mid combat. Its a joke of a race.
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If they didn’t know the fight was going to be nerfed, they should find better analysts. Echo’s analysts knew the moment they hit P3 for the first time that it would need a substantial nerf in some way; the on-air analyst for Echo discussed it extensively.
You cut off part of the quote which changes the meaning of what I said. My quote was that they didn’t know if or when it would be nerfed. Blizzard doesn’t always swiftly nerf things that need it; on that very boss how many wipes did both Liquid and Echo put into the P1 intermission with an add that required a 50% nerf just to progress to P2?
Even if they knew a nerf would be required, they couldn’t predict it would come during the morning for them before their day started. The nerf could have very well come at 6PM PST in which case subverting their routine would have been an absolute waste and possibly hurt them more than it helped.
And all of that is pretty meaningless to my overall point. Even if Liquid needs new analysts because they didn’t know it would be nerfed, that doesn’t change the fact that changing their schedule is a risky decision that will have both short term and possibly long term consequences, with no guarantees it would still be killable.
They (a) should have known the nerf was needed and (b) were told about the nerf two hours before it happened.
They were behind on the fight the entire way; and you’re skipping over the part too where the two previous nerfs happened after Echo was the first guild to the breakpoints that needed nerfs AND the nerfs happened after Echo had stopped raiding for the day.
Liquid has a history of making royally stupid decisions that cost them a chance at winning the race. This was simply another one.
You sound like a fanboi.
No one was told exactly when the nerf would be implemented.
As for the rest of what you’re saying, its silly to assert that one team would have won anyway, so it doesnt actually matter what blizz did.