Did Blizz back themselves into a corner?

Don’t. Just because people can’t think critically after reading… …

You’re son was referring to the challenge of older WoW vs newer WoW.

Too many people assume casual = easy mode; challenge = difficulty.

So lets clarify: It’s casual vs committed. Quick vs Grindy, Easy vs Hard. Challenge, is the summation of those things. Casual and Easy is low challenge, Casual and Hard is medium challenge, Committed and Hard is hard challenge [aka: hardcore!], etc.

Casual is a question of commitment - schedule and consistency. Wow was never “casual” in vanilla, and it certainly wasn’t difficult. WoW in Vanilla presented a different challenge: endurance. Becuase WoW was: Committed, Grindy, Easy.

And let me be clear: You could casually play in vanilla – there was so much leveling/open world content you really never needed to step into an instance to play, and you could go at your own pace. You could be as committed or uncommitted as you liked. But you’d never get the PVP set, nor the raid sets – you never had the best gear or anywhere near as good – never see the end game content – unless you were committed, and did the grindy things.

The expectation today, is that you should be able to get all that. Blizzard, has made changes over the years that have fostered that idea… but its rarely , truly, been the case. Where they take out grindy, they added time gates. Its fast to do the content, but they have to artificially slow you down… etc.

When Blizzard made the changes, they addressed accessibility: It was shifting from Grindy content that took ages to do, to quick content that had to be gated. Instant ports to dungeons, group find tools, LFR… etc: all to make it less of a grind to find groups and get to content.

But, Blizzard also changed the difficulty, inadvertently. [And this is where they messed up]. They took what was, already an easy game, and made it even easier. How? By removing the the grindy aspects, and over streamlining, they removed the requisite … learning path. Which forced the community into creating the quick easy “meta” guides.

That is: redesigning the game in a more streamlined, accessible, less grindy manner: opened the gates for “optimal” choices, that could be implemented quickly on your character. So the guides began to flow.

As a result of the now masses of more optimized players, the old “easy” content became ridiculously easy. Where before only a few people were capable of 80% efficiency, now nearly everyone was.

In response, Cataclysm. This is where Blizzard made the full transition to Casual-ish, Quick, Hard[er] content. Mechanics on boss fights multiplied, they focused on the players as individuals and not the group as a whole. They made fights more difficult by inserting Personal Responsibility into the encounters.

Since that final change: Blizzard has been trying to bounce between options trying to manage the challenge of the game. They seem unwilling to reintroduce the grindy aspect, and so the only option is to fiddle with casual/committed and easy/hard.

All of the arguments are about that: how people like to be challenged. Some people are sprinters and want to be the fastest. Others are marathon runners who look for the endurance. But one things is for sure: You cant have sprinters and marathon runners running the same race.

3 Likes

I don’t necessarily agree that vanilla was more or less casual, but outside of cutting edge progression raiding it was certainly less… “serious business”, at least in the circle I played it with. Same for TBC. WotLK was where you started to see a heavier focus on metrics/performance/etc, even among the lower ranks (remember gearscore?), but that wouldn’t fully take hold for several more expansions.

to say blizzard has back themselves into a corner would assume they were out of the corner at any given point over the last decade or so.

Oh, I see…definitely love to hear a conversation between you and my son on this! Also, no wonder when he was a teen and I’d tell them times up on video game there’d be moans of I can’t! I’m in the middle of x,y,z… lol Now they tease me and say seee…when I was trying out raiding. :blush:

Ps…thx for the intelligent response and support. Appreciate it

1 Like

Because everything is a crisis these days. Some time around 2008 is when I first started noticing that we implemented extremes as the words to describe events and started talking about things in terms of worst possible outcomes. This stems from the media and how it covers things. People have now been attuned to the speculative doomsday outcomes.

Hence why you got the “does the game need to end…” statements, instead of “could blizz make this one adjustment”

What corner?

WoW got weird when they started the arena tournaments. It got even weirder when world first raid clears became srs bsnss, and weirder still with MDI. Now Blizzard has an awkward cross between a traditional MMO and an eSport platform.

They’re actually handling it pretty well all things considered. There are a lot of gradations of difficulty in the instanced content, and the dungeon and raid finder versions are easy. On the off chance you have a truly terrible group the stacking 5% usually takes care of it.

They are still putting a lot of effort into the art and the open game world. I think Bastion and Ardenweald are as beautiful as any zone in the game. There are plenty of toy/mount/pet items to keep the collectors happy in Shadowlands, and the covenants are a vast time sink if you want to fully upgrade the sanctum.

The only corner Blizzard has kind of painted themselves into is with class balance. Historically, they have been surprisingly bad at tuning classes and with 36 different class/spec combinations they seem to be overwhelmed. I think the eSport community has largely accepted that part of the competition is rapidly identifying the broken meta each season.

I think class balance is largely only a problem because of the more competitive tilt the game has taken. It’s the whole reason why single-digit-percent performances differences come to be seen as “broken”… in an environment where competitiveness isn’t the point it doesn’t matter nearly as much — it just needs to work well enough. TBC’s level of class balance would probably be adequate in the situation.

DING DING DING.

Why aren’t their any tanks or healers! - Because the harder the content, the more they are punished.

Why are only a few tanks viable at high keys - Because the harder the content and less room for error, the more important meta classes become.

Sooner or later these dimwits will get it. The more extreme you make the game, the more class balance issues you will have.

Does anyone have a decoder ring to extract a point out of this?

I don’t think there is an appropriate emoji for my reaction to this :rofl:

Reading all of the post, I don’t know how anyone could come to the conclusion of “the game needs to end” How about :thinking: that person quits? I don’t normally say people should quit because everyone likes something but if you want the whole game to end then apparently you like nothing and you should quit.

It’s been a long time since blizz has innovated. Pretty much new expansions are mirrors of the previous.

Borrowed power, meaningless leveling, gimmick dungeons…

Raiding feels like a second rate version of dance dance revolution.

M+ is go go go aoe aoe go go go

The game has gotten pretty boring.